Hello, I have been lurking here for years and learning but no posts, this is my first. I have been casting target pistol bullets for a long time, wheel weight lead. Very few problems that weren't answered on this forum, thank you very much. I have not ever added gas checks to any reloads and I have had leading in some bores. It seems leading can be a separate issue from gas checks. Seems that some of my bores lead more and some not much at all. My question is about aluminum gas checks. I work as a machinists and run into aluminum “welding” itself to steel and other materials under heat/pressure. Why doesn't AL gas checks turn a leaded bore into a bore with AL stuck or smeared down the length of the bore? Copper I see cause it's like jacketed bullets but I am curious about AL. Thanks, Paul
Aluminum gas checks scoring bore?
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- Last Post 02 August 2014
Welcome. I have no answer for you but do know I've never had a problem with aluminium checks in a .357 mag. pistol and carbine.
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Early on when Aluminum checks became available I had read comments that chrome lined bores were prone to gathering Aluminum from Aluminum checks and bores were getting streaked with Aluminum.
I have fired thousands of rounds 7,62X39 Aluminum gas checked rounds from a Remington Spartan single shot rifle with a chrome lined bore, There has never been any accumulation of Aluminum in the bore.
I also use Aluminum checked cast bullets, many thousands, in conventional moly bores in .223 Rem, 30-30, .308 Win, 30-06, .458 Win Mag and .500 S&W Mag rifles. I have never had any aluminum streaking left in any of those bores either.
There is no leading in any of my rifles either, but the reason for that is good bullet to throat fit and matching alloy to load level and I don't believe leading is associated to gas checks at all when your load and fit and alloy are correct. It is the shooters that don't get that stuff correct that scapegoat a list of things to blame leading on.
Gary
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Thank you both. It's good to know someone who is shooting AL checks with no problem. I have been only loading cowboy/plinking/snake/steel plate/"target” loads for years now in .38 Special, .41 Mag, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, sorta jack of all trades bullets out of wheel weights. 750-950 fps mostly. Mostly in Ruger Blackhawks and S&W. Each has it's own different leading tendencies and I can keep it down with a good bullet fit and load level. I have some friends who are getting into casting 30-30 & 30-06 and they are using copper gas checks. I have a Garand and an 03A3 that I can work up some loads for now that they invested in the molds and dies etc. And we have been tossing around the AL vs copper issue. Some of the copper we machine is gummy like bubblegum and i suppose copper checks are harder too.
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hey gary -- i wuz wondering ... if/when you load hotter y hotter with your tight-throat bullets, what are the failure symptoms at ” critical ” pressure .. ( or is it critical velocity ? ) ?
does it lead the barrel ... or does it get less accurate ... or both ?
just wandering..
ken
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I routinely have the same result with my gas checked bullets and Lyman #2 alloy. The gas checks extend the usable load range in PSI about 15-25% past the ultimate strength in psi of the alloy when the groups on paper begin to open up, sometimes very dramatically. #2 alloy strength is about 22,000 psi and gas checked loads with that alloy generally lose accuracy 25,000 to 28,000 psi ballistic pressure. I have gone a bit higher in a few instances and been able to maintain my hunting standard of 1 inch groups or better at 50 yards with gas checked #2 alloy rifle bullets.
This is normal in my opinion. I do have a bevel base, non gas checked cast bullet load with a #2 alloy bullet in 375 H&H that even goes higher than the 28,000 and still groups well at 35,000+ psi. That, I don't consider normal, just lucky for unknown reasons.
Gary
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Gary that prompts another question I have been wondering about. The only bullet molds I have seen used (gas check style) have had a straight, reduced diameter base and the checks fill/fit that tight with a sizer/luber. Are the bevel base bullets used with gas checks? Does the bevel hold on to the checks tight enough? Does the check “swage” itself into that bevel area? Are folks shooting bevel bases getting more leading? Looks like a gas path around to the sides to me. My brother likes the bevel bases because he has an auto feeding loader and they line up in the case easier. I load only with single stage presses or homemade Lee style loaders so I can feed by hand. Paul
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I have shot an awful lot of Al GCs and have yet to experience any deposits in the bore. It's important to understand that leading is factor of gas cut alloy and lead melts at a significantly lesser temp than Al. Leading is not a factor of alloy rubbing off onto metal. As such Al is always going to be resilient.
Now, that said, I have found there to be a HUGE difference between hard a soft Al alloy.
http://floydpics.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/gas-check-material-it-aint-all-the-same/
Cheers from New Zealand
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Bevel base bullets do not use and are not designed for gas checks. Bevel base bullets are for lower pressure loads the same as plain base bullets that also aren't designed for gas checks.
The bevel base aids in bullet seating when loading and it also decreases bearing surface of the bullet to reduce ballistic pressure and increase velocity.
Gary
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I see now the large threads talking flat vs bevel, whole lot of both sides, thanks Paul
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my friend j. goodrich has worked extensively with forming aluminum gas checks for his .35 ... he finds the gas check must be annealed * after * forming to seat well. the forming results in work hardening, detrimental to seating well.
btw he is playing with a hr handi-rifle in 357 maximum . i got to shoot some water jugs with it; plenty enough boom boom ..
ken
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The side loads on a gas check are probably very minimal past the first inch of travel. Once it has been engraved with the rifling it is probably closer to an air bearing. no real side loads. Just a guess.
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while we are rambling, it would seem that mild steel gas checks would work fine ... extrapolating from some studies of barrel life with steel jacketed bullets ... which gave better barrel life than copper jackets ...
hey i got a ton of leaded steel bar left if someone wants to play ... heh, how about cast iron ?
meehanite ...
rambling OFF
ken
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Good question. Taking the aluminum gas checks one step further, Winchester's Silvertip pistol bullets utilize aluminum jackets. I am inclined to think that the engineers there looked into any potential issues associated with using Al vs Cu for jacket material before biting the bullet to starting production on the Silvertip line of pistol projectiles and ammo. Michael P.S. Paul, Welcome to the CBA forum.
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