A progressive for cast bullets

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  • Last Post 13 August 2014
John Alexander posted this 29 July 2014

I don't usually reload a lot of cartridges with the same load at any one time.  But sometimes the night before a match I think a progressive might not be a bad idea.  What are the pros and cons. John

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Little Debbie posted this 29 July 2014

I've loaded hundred of thousands of cast bullets with a Dillon RL 1000. The ammunition was the same quality as that loaded on a single station press. The set up for a long run must be perfect and takes time and attention because you can produce a lot of poorly functioning, out of spec or dangerous ammunition in a hurry. The motion and vibration can cause adjustments to change you need to check everything on a regular basis. My rule was to check the cartridge with a gauge and weigh the dispensed powder every time I re-filled the primer tube. The catch box was emptied at that point to segregate each batch of a 100 in case you find a problem. That way you only have a 100 rounds that are suspect, not a 1,000. You need to understand that some primers are prone to detonation and some powders tend to gum up powder dispensers. Generally you must use a ball type powder for best functioning.  Reloading is never a job to rush and adding haste with a progressive can be a frustrating exercise. If you need a nudge to buy a new machine, I'll push you. Just make sure you can cast enough bullets to keep up, even casting a 1,000 bullets with a four cavity mold or a pair of them can be daunting, not to mention the sizing and lubing. Let us know what you do and how it goes.

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RicinYakima posted this 29 July 2014

John, For anyone else but you, I would recommend the C&H 4 station semi-progressive press. You can do about 200 match loads an hour and visually check every operation as you move the case from station to station.   But since you doubt the necessity of all the operations we “anal-excessive-every millionth of an inch” is important types do in our reloading, I would suggest one of the Lee auto-turrets.  document.write('/images/emoticons/big_grin.gif');

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Little Debbie posted this 30 July 2014

As far as a type brand or machine look at the Dillon machines, buy the model with the features and speed you need. Dillion's service and support are tops and you can load most common handgun and rifle cartridges.

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gpidaho posted this 30 July 2014

John:  I owned a Dillon 550B for years and they are truly great machines. Never a problem, that being said Im just to anal to deal with a progressive.  Sold it about a month ago and bought other things I wanted.  My T7-Redding is fast enough for me. If it is a progressive, I vote Dillon, and would go with the 650 as it has five stations and the 550 only four. Great machines, and the lifetime NO BS guarantee.   GP

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Tech posted this 30 July 2014

I have a Hornady lock N load and a Lee classic turret. The Hornady is more precise and one station has very little influence on the next. Some of the Dillons are not so friendly. The powder measure does a good job and the press is very well built. The shell plate holds the shells more accurately than the single stage holders. The plastic handle sucks but a snooker ball from the second hand store remedied that. Changing calibers is slow but you can pull one die out to service it and put it right back with no issues. It primes at the bottom of the stroke and is the only operation at that point. The Lee is a well built machine and is easily changed between turrets. I use it for all my oddball calibers because they stay setup. I also have my specialty dies in a turret for easy access. I have a Lyman powder throw on it that works well. The primer holder is plastic and a bit flaky. It primes at the bottom as well. 5 stations are better than 4. For the 223 I was able to build a custom belling die and put it in the extra hole. I wasn't getting reliable powder dumps with a through hole belling die. For pistol I put a bullet feeder in the extra hole and it makes reloading 9mm a pleasure. Some machines prime at the top where you can't feel a thing and I don't find that acceptable. Hornady has done a good job of separating the operations so you can feel when something isn't right.

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JSH posted this 30 July 2014

I am one of very few I imagine that went from a dillon to a Hornady progressive. Four stations some times were not enough and a 650 just wasn't going to let me go semi progressive. I can use the Hornady as a full progressive just add cases and bullets on some cartridges. On others I size and then hand prime and use a different powder measure. I have yet to find a powder measure that will measure stick powders like sr4759 and h1000 etc like my old belding and mull. Get all my dies set up, then I can pull brass out and put it back in where ever need be due to the spring retainer on the Hornady. It will all depend on your “style” and how or what you want to do. The Hornady worked out well enough for me that I have three of them now. Got a heck of a deal on two that were very slightly used, what can I say. Have one set up for 30-20 as I shoot a lot of those through out the summer, or try too. Two different guns but, but three different bullets and charges of powder. When I went to a progressive to load the 1000 rounds of brass I have for the two guns, it went from around 7-8 evenings to 2-3. On the 30-30 it was a real time saver as I do several different things. I still hand prime these and drop powder charges with the b and m. Now I can size and decap, then my m die all with one pull of the handle. Jeff

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giorgio de galleani posted this 30 July 2014

Progressive , what is a progressive? A system to spend more time shooting and less time pumping a lever. And to make less errors , no powder ,two doses of powder.

I current use the following presses:

Lee classic Turret Press with 4 hole Turret. For strange calibers  as the 458Lott or

577 Snider.

Lee Pro 1000 , 3 hole turret,auto advancing shellplate  If you keep it simple without auto case feeder and your guns accept loaded rounds that are not passed through the factory crimp die it is quite OK.

I use it for the 223 Rem ,the 30M1 carbine the 45Auto Rim and the 32Auto.

The great auto   pistol   loading workhorse the Dillon 550 .4 hole turret ,You can use the Lee factory crimp die .on the fourth station.

The shell plate hasto be advanced by hand , you have to establish routine movements of your hand and NOT allow to be disturbed or interrupted while loading.

The no powder or double powder ghost is lurking.

You can sit in a position you can spy a double powder charge in the small auto cases ,and for the big revolver cases as 38sp or 44sp&Mag , just use strong guns and use a load that if you double it , your gun will digest it. 

My 357 Peacemakers or Marlin leveraction just recoil a little more when shooting 7 or 8 grains of fast powders and a 130 gr bullet. instead of three or four.

Prime size changing is easy.

The best one is the Dillon650,it has an automatic advancing of the shell plate and I load all the rifle cartridges from the tiny 7,62x39 to the 375H&H .

With 5 stations I Neck size on the first, prime and put the powder with the Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure  on the second 

I use the spring  return of the measure , to position,I do not like the one with the small lavatory washing chain.

The largest powder setting with the double disk kit allows a full charge of Vihtavuori N135 in the 308W, For bigger powder loads ,that I seldom use ,I have to use a separate Lyman 55 powder measure.

Most of my loads are moderate cast bullet loads.

Some Lee die sets, for straight walled rifle cases,  have the expanding powder through die, while with bottle neck cases use the Rifle charging die , and the necks are expanded  wit the separate die ,either Lyman oe RCBS,at station three.

At station four I just seat the bullets  and the factory crimp die completes the work at the fifth hole.

It advances smootly ,it spills no powder at it is as foolproof as a human made machine can be.

Some friends are so clever as to be able to change the primer sistem ,from small to large and vice versa, I keep it on the Large Primers setting.

I still have an RCBS rochchucker press that I use for works that require strenght  as full lenght sizing of rifle cartridges,and a Lyman 310 tool for loading on the range.

In my opinion with my progressive machines I make as accurate loads as can be made with any bench mounted press.

Just build a routine od hand movements and watch what you are doing ,if the lever gets suddentli hard , STOP! Someting is wrong ,( a 38 super mixed with  9x21 brass)

The most dangerous source of errors is in using a single station press and using a tray  holding the cases in dispensing the powder.

And never allow anybody to interrupt you .

Always weigh the powder after you have set the measure.

giorgio de galleani posted this 30 July 2014

The small Lee press on the right  is for sizing bullets in the Lee push throug die.

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99 Strajght posted this 30 July 2014

I have had the Lee Load Master for about 10 years now. Works well without any problems. I load about 2000 40 S&W and about 2000 45 auto each year for my USPSA shooting. I change back and forth without any problems and leave each caliber set up in it's own turret plate.

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Bohica793 posted this 30 July 2014

I started loading with a Lee Classic Cast single stage for everything. I now load all of my pistol calibers on a Lee Classic Turret with the single stage relegated to loading my rifle calibers. To me, a progressive is just too many moving parts and too many places to screw up, but I am a klutz to begin with.

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Tom Acheson posted this 30 July 2014

A little off topic but it would be interesting to see which, if any, of the CBA National Records were set using a progressive press. And while we are it, listing the rifle, chambering, bullet, powder and primer that was used to set the NR would be interesting. True, you can go back into the Fouling Shot archives and search for the info but boy that takes time...almost as much time as using a single stage press!

Tom

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DR Owl Creek posted this 30 July 2014

I have a Hornady AP L-N-L that I've been using for around 10 years. I've loaded literally 1,000's and 1,000's of rounds over that time. It's worked pretty much flawlessly for me over that time. The only thing I've had to replace has been the cartridge retainer springs every once in awhile. Hornady has so far always sent them out to me for FREE when I call.   I went with the Hornady over the Dillon, because the Hornady is a five station, auto indexing progressive, and I liked the quick change bushing system Hornady uses much better than Dillon's interchangeable tool-heads. With the Hornady quick change bushings, you don't have to re-set the dies when you change them. You can also do a complete cartridge change over (including shell plate and primer feed systems) in less than five minutes. If you load a lot of different cartridges like I do, Dillon's tool-head set up can get expensive really fast.   I can do rifle loads on my AP L-N-L, but I usually use it for pistol rounds, which I do in large batches as needed. Most of my rifle rounds I still do on a single stage press. I prefer doing the rifle loads on the single stage primarily because of the hassle dealing with lubing the cases for sizing, and then having to handle the bullets, cases, etc. For me, its easier doing that on the single stage press.   Dave

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horne458 posted this 30 July 2014

Just my 2 cents worth: been using my Star Universal for 35 plus years to load .38's and .45 ACP's. Haven't had to replace anything worn out yet :)

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R. Dupraz posted this 30 July 2014

I would vote for the Hornady L&L AP for all the reasons already stated. About five years ago, I compared all the popular progressives as to features operation and price and decided on the Hornady. I like it. It serves my needs well.

I especially like the five stations and the versatility of easily using all five stations or any combination depending on the situation at the time.

For some cartridges I use all if loading for volume. Or, when loading for my military match guns just an M-die in one station, a powder measure in another and powder cop die in the third position. The sizing, decaping and priming are done on a single station Hornady. A drill press does the seating of cast with a St. line Wilson die.

I put a 1/8” dowel with a little red flag on the top end in the primer tube as a low primer alert. And, made a sliding rod linkage between the handle casting and powder measure. Now stick powder works through the measure flawlessly.

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John Alexander posted this 31 July 2014

Wow -- I am impressed with the amount of detailed recommendations and the reasons why as well as all the pros and cons you all were willing to take the time to write. There is nothing like the experience of users to get the straight skinny.

I especially appreciate Ric customizing his recommendation to my odd personality quirks.

This is such good information for anyone thinking about buying a progressive that i will put a notice in the “CBA News” section of the Fouling Shot suggesting that others interested in a progressive use it as a reference.

Thanks to all.

John

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Paul Pollard posted this 31 July 2014

Has anyone made a progressive bullet sizing, gas check seating, lubing, tapering, bumping press? My bench is covered with single-stages presses for bullet prep. Might be a good winter project.

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Tech posted this 31 July 2014

I didn't know so many people ran the Hornady L-N-L. I use a spare shell plate spring around the powder linkage and a small shot bag to virtually guarantee that the throw will reset properly when using stick or large flake powder.

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R. Dupraz posted this 31 July 2014

My Hornady L&L AP already has a spring on the powder measure linkage that returns the rotor. Has never been a problem.

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JSH posted this 01 August 2014

The top down fall on ALL progressives is the primer feed. I have had a chance to operate or use a half dozen or so progressives. All of them had primer feed issues at some time or another. Being dirty was the most common fault. Some systems just don't like certain primers also. I have one powder measure I trust with any type powder. The progressives will do good service with ball powders with hardly any issues. Stick type exhibit the same results and problems most measures do. Buddy of mine swears by 4198 and uses it in a dillon. He is happy with it but his results on paper are not what I seek in the accuracy department. Jeff

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Tech posted this 01 August 2014

The LNL primer feed needs a little tuning when you first get it to center the feed tube over the shuttle. My only improvement would be to add a small hole in the base plate where the shuttle stops so that any loose powder would have a way to automatically clear the mechanism. A small paint brush cleans things up quickly.

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