The Weaver T 36 scope and Burris Signature Zee rings. The Weaver T 36 scope has one eighth minute clicks. One knob revolution is 72 clicks or 9 minutes. The knob is marked in clicks and marked in minutes 0,1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1 and 0 again, in one revolution. I record the scope settings each time I shoot, and find the settings difficult to read when the scope is on a rifle, I can't get my eyes in the right place easily. I find that with the scope off the rifle, the settings are much easier to read. The settings are very repeatable on my Savage rifles with different barrels, and the scope is frequently moved from rifle to rifle. The Burris Signature Zee rings are the best rings, in my opinion. Weaver #46 two piece mounts fit my Savage 10 and 12 rifles. However, it is, for me, VERY difficult to put a scope on these mounts. This seems to be because both rings must be aligned with both mounts simultaneously, and with my tremor this is difficult. The solution has been the Weaver #48338 one piece mount; that allows the rear ring to be put on the mount, the scope slid forward, screws installed and done. The one piece mount solves the problem, makes removing and replacing the scope easy.
The Weaver T 36 scope and Burris Signature Zee rings.
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- Last Post 16 August 2014
Good solution Joe. But you mention the marked numbers on the adjustments without comment. I'm afraid you may be losing your edge as a curmudgeon. As a fellow curmudgeon I will try to help.
Those markings have some merit for the windage adjustment, but if they are not the stupidest possible arrangement you could think up for the elevation adjustment they must be in the running for that prize. I suppose having the number 4 repeated nine times would be worse. Having two of each number instead of 0 through 8 is a perfect way to add to your troubles as you are trying to get on paper while trying a new load or remembering a zero.
Years ago I called Weaver explained the problem and tried to buy a replacement with 0 through 8 which they didn't have. I suggested that might be a good thing but I see they are still at it. I see that B&L had that figures years ago when they make my elderly scope. John
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Good solution Joe.
But you mention the marked numbers on the adjustments without comment. I'm afraid you may be losing your edge as a curmudgeon. As a fellow curmudgeon I will try to help.
Those markings have some merit for the windage adjustment, but if they are not the stupidest possible arrangement you could think up for the elevation adjustment they must be in the running for that prize. I suppose having the number 4 repeated nine times would be worse. Having two of each number instead of 0 through 8 is a perfect way to add to your troubles as you are trying to get on paper while trying a new load or remembering a zero.
Years ago I called Weaver explained the problem and tried to buy a replacement with 0 through 8 which they didn't have. I suggested that might be a good thing but I see they are still at it. I see that B&L had that figures years ago when they make my elderly scope. JohnWell, I spend a little time and figure out how the scope markings work. Then write it down. After that it doesn't matter how the marks are made.This scope has 72 = 9 X 1/8 min clicks/divisions per revolution. Marking 0 to 8 doesn't work, unless the internal thread gizmo were changed. 0 to 9 would work. There have to be 9 divisions. We could call/mark them A through I and they'd still work.
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I hope they fixed this issue on the new high dollar replacement for the target line,,,
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Good solution Joe.
But you mention the marked numbers on the adjustments without comment. I'm afraid you may be losing your edge as a curmudgeon. As a fellow curmudgeon I will try to help.
Those markings have some merit for the windage adjustment, but if they are not the stupidest possible arrangement you could think up for the elevation adjustment they must be in the running for that prize. I suppose having the number 4 repeated nine times would be worse. Having two of each number instead of 0 through 8 is a perfect way to add to your troubles as you are trying to get on paper while trying a new load or remembering a zero.
Years ago I called Weaver explained the problem and tried to buy a replacement with 0 through 8 which they didn't have. I suggested that might be a good thing but I see they are still at it. I see that B&L had that figures years ago when they make my elderly scope.
JohnWell, I spend a little time and figure out how the scope markings work. Then write it down. After that it doesn't matter how the marks are made.This scope has 72 = 9 X 1/8 min clicks/divisions per revolution. Marking 0 to 8 doesn't work, unless the internal thread gizmo were changed. 0 to 9 would work.
I'm wrong here, 0 to 8 would work, with the return to 0 the 9th division.
There have to be 9 divisions. We could call/mark them A through I and they'd still work.
And since 'm wrong and there ARE 9 divisions, that would be A through H.
So settings would be recorded as “24 + 2(clicks) or 24 1/4 in the current system OR in John's 0-8 marking system; that would be 2 revolutions UP or RIGHT, then 6 numbered divisions beyond that, then 2 clicks = small divisions beyond that.It still ain't easy, even for a micrometer reader.
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Let's talk about the other piece of equipment that Joe started the thread with -- the Burris zee rings. When Burris put them on the market with the eccentric inserts available they seemed like the greatest to me. But as a typical, shall we say thrifty, cast bullet shooter my tastes ran to $8 Tasco rings which have served me without problems. So until last week I had never had a pair of the Zees.
I finally had a reason to buy a pair and as I coughed up the sixty dollars for a high set I noticed in the catalog that the sets of eccentric rings were sold separately and the inserts alone cost about the same as my usual Tasco rings. I hoped I wouldn't need them.
When the rings came I noticed the four inserts in the package and assumed I would need them but discovered there were also inserts already in the rings so i mounted the scope. It had good horizontal alignment but I had to crank up 15 MOA to zero which didn't seem bad. I did go back and dig out the extra inserts and found that one of each pair was .02” thicker than the other.
If my calculations are correct and I use both rings positioned properly to get the most adjustment I could move the alignment about 18 MOA for almost perfect alignment looking through the center of the scope.
I have two questions.
1. It is a pita to line up those eight little screws again and try to torque them more of less uniformly but I would do it and make the adjustment with the eccentric inserts if I thought it was worthwhile. Is it worth inserting the inserts to be able to look through the center of the scope? I know it is supposed to be optically best but is 15 MOA enough to make a difference? 2. How much torque should be on Zee ring screws? As usual with many modern products way more attention was paid to designing a plastic package that was hard to open than writing instructions.
Any advice anyone can offer will be appreciated.
John
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Looking thru the center of the scope sure can't hurt.
The plastic insert rings do a couple of other things also.
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John; I have used and recommended the Burris Signature rings for many years. As “fa 38” mentioned, they are the only rings available, that, out of the box, will not put stress on the scope. This is far more important than a person would think. The erector mechanism of most scopes (inside) are close to the tube. Many scope problems, both temporary and permanent can be caused by bending of the scope tube from misalignment.
I have found many rifles with misaligned scope mounting grooves as well as misaligned screw holes. By using the offset Burris rings, as intended, ALL of this is eliminated. And-d-d, having the scope perfectly centered insures you will get all of the performance from the scope that the manufacuturer put in it.
NOTE: It is important to tighten the screws properly, then the next day re-tighten. The polymer inserts can take a set requiring re-tightening. After this procedure, I have never had a one come loose.
FWIW Dale53
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John,
They are worthwhile for the reasons stated. The optional insert kit is handy, giving +/- 5,10 and 20 inserts. Torque the rings screws 14 to 16 inch-pounds (I use the Brownells torque driver). Never had one slip, even on hard kickers.
Steve
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Dale, Thank you for the tip on retightening the screws later but I am still hoping for a inch - pound recommendation. Burris provided nothing. I realize the advantages of the zee rings that is one of the reasons I bought the rings. I also that the eccentric inserts can be used to better align the scope. I don't doubt that exactly down the axis of the scope is best but my question was how much of an angle makes a difference. Since asking the question I have run the numbers and if your eye was perfectly centered being off zero 15 MOA (as my scope was) would mean that you would be off center 1.7 mm at the 40 or 50 mm objective lens. I don't know but would venture to guess that that is probably insignificant. John
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speaking of scope abuse, i found out that you shouldn't put your mount rings too close to the adjustment turrets on a internal adjustment scope. my steel tube micro trac t20 went goofy ... back to el paso ( years ago ) ... KA-$$CHING !!
the least scatter distortion is achieved when the incoming light rays pass near the center of the lenses ... unfortunately, you wouldn't get angle magnification there ( g ) . dang compromises drive me crazy !
ken
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