Substituting loads?

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  • Last Post 19 January 2016
mckg posted this 05 December 2013

I'm looking into replacing common shot by buckshot or balls (weight for weight or less).

Components are scarce, my Lee Load-All is unavailable at the time, but casting and punching flat wads is ok. I did simply replace some 7 1/2 with some 32 RB's in the past, but never shot them.

Any experience and wisdom from our members?

Thank you in advance

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6pt-sika posted this 05 December 2013

In my old 10 gauge guns I use the same powder charge and wad for birdshot and buckshot . As long as the payload doesn't chamnge more then a 1/4 ounce .

And it has worked well in that application with several different sizes of buck .

 

My regular low pressure 16 gauge bird load has been changed into buck . And just recently I did it with 12's and 20's although I still need to tweak the 20 gauge a bit as I'm not totally satisfied with the folded crimp I'm geting .

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mckg posted this 05 December 2013

Thank you sika.

I seem to remember that none of the crimps in the Load-All matched the ammo I had... I guess that if it wasn't fired you cannot change the number of folds...

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mckg posted this 05 December 2013

Thanks Gary, I was thinking about old fashion flat wads for single projectiles; but if I had problems with crimping with a press, I might have to stick to shot...

I found some refs about a shotgun load kit I already have half the “parts” here ;); for brass cases though: http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/products.htm>http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/products.htm

Also, I just remembered a friend in Europe mentioning 3-ball loads; balls were in a common diameter (.45? times 3 would make an ounce ...). Has anybody seen such ammo?

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6pt-sika posted this 05 December 2013

onondaga wrote: Dangerous pressure increases will happen when you have the same payload weight but increase the tightness or bore friction as in using a round ball in a shot cup when the round ball and and shot cup causes a fit that takes more than a 5 -10 pound push  to push it through your barrel and choke. This is easy to test with a sample round ball, shot cup and a cleaning rod and then just see how it feels to push the combination  through your barrel and choke. If it is tighter than a 5 - 10 pound push, you need a smaller size ball or slug if that is what you are testing.

While you may very well be correct . It's worked okay for me to date as I am still able to type . Well with buckshot only that is .

The one roundball or slug thing I have not tried yet , but it's only a matter of time until I do .

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Shadowdog posted this 06 December 2013

I haven't much interest in tri-ball loads, but will probably end up either making some up someday, or buying some factory just to see what they do.

As for substituting ball/buckshot weight for weight in place of shot...Yes, I do it, with caution, using everything reasonably possible from the original published recipe, just substituting ball, or buck, (sometimes both) for the fine shot load. I ALWAYS use good Remington STS Premier, Federal Gold Medal, or the old style W-W one piece A-A hulls in 2.75” loads. Don't skimp and use cheap hulls! Next...Study!-Study!-Study! High-light the important stuff and read as many loading manuals as you can get your hands on! I have both the Lyman and BPI manuals, there's a lot of good things in them to read and remember. Compare similar recipes and load down slightly, then you may work back up to the published powder charge, I always load just a little light on the payload weight, and use a roll crimp when possible, (using new shells, or previously loaded roll crimped shells).

I do not shoot buckshot, ball, buck and ball, or slugs through a field barrel designed for bird shot with a tight choke. I value my Ithaca '37's very much and have 5 barrels for my “Magnum” Model which includes a rifled Deer Slayer barrel, a smooth bore Deer Slayer barrel, and a 20” "Trench” barrel. These are the barrels that are used for buck shot, buck and ball, ball, and slugs. The vent rib field barrels only get fed fine shot, BB-#8. I can say the same for my old Wing Master, only 2 barrels for it, a 28” vent rib modified, and a 20” smooth bore slug barrel. The Wing Master doesn't fit me like the '37's, but I respect it and use the proper barrel for the load.

Doubles and other non-interchangeable barreled guns...I have a new box of Remington 12ga. 3” magnum 00 buckshot, (15 pellet load, 1,225FPS) that states, “May be used with any choke, but best results with full choke.” That is a quote right off the Remington factory box. As for solid projectiles, push the payload through the barrel with a dowel, exactly as it would travel if shot, wad and all. If you have to beat it through, don't use it! It should slide through any barrel and choke restriction with less than 10-lbs of pressure on the rod.

Hope I didn't bore anybody!:D

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6pt-sika posted this 06 December 2013

onondaga wrote: I have taken just  two Coyote with my own cast “0” size  Buck Shot loads and they were both at about 100 yards and clean kills with my rifled choke  tube on my Winchester 12 ga, pump shotgun and my hand loads. I load 12 ga with the Lee Load All press.

I have loaded a lot of 12 ga.  single round ball loads too and practiced with them getting 2 inch groups at 50 yards with the load I use.

Gary

What you say may very well be true .

However it's been my experience when trying to shoot buckshot thru a rifled shotgun the pattern was blown to F .

I happened to have a Savage 210 12 gauge rifled slug gun at the range and accidently put some Hevi Shot 00 Buck in the gun thinking they were slug loads . Anyway they failed to hit a 14x14 inch target at 25 yards from a bench rest . The rifling has a tendency to throw buckshot wildly to say the least .

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billw_willy posted this 15 January 2016

onondaga wrote: I have taken just  two Coyote with my own cast “0” size  Buck Shot loads and they were both at about 100 yards and clean kills with my rifled choke  tube on my Winchester 12 ga, pump shotgun and my hand loads. I load 12 ga with the Lee Load All press.

I have loaded a lot of 12 ga.  single round ball loads too and practiced with them getting 2 inch groups at 50 yards with the load I use.

Gary 2” at 50 yds is interesting with single round ball. Will you share your load data and shotgun/barrel choke?

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onondaga posted this 15 January 2016

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=63>billw_willy

My 12 ga round ball load, sure, here it is:

1.) Lee .690” round ball in pure lead 2.) Claybuster WAA12L replacement wad # CB0178-12, this is a 3/4 oz shot cup wad that needs no spacer under the ball for crimp height. I get these from MidwayUSA. 3) Winchester AA 12 ga hull. #209 promer 4.) 16 gr Hodgdon TiteGroup 5.) standard 6 point crimp 6.) 1120 fps verified.

My shotgun is a 12 ga. Winchester 1200 Black Shadow pump with smooth bore and rifled choke from  Carlson's or Win-choke I.C. from Winchester. Bushnell 1.5-4.5 shotgun scope.

This load has significant recoil as the .690” Lee Round ball in pure lead weighs just over 1 and 1/8 oz.

This is a safe load when you make no substitutions, it is not MAXIMUM. Different wads, different ball size, different hulls, different ball alloy can put you over MAXIMUM. Use caution and make no substitutions.

Gary

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admiral posted this 15 January 2016

Personally, when loading anything but dove loads, I treat shotshell loading just like metallic. I weigh powder and shot, use a loading block, etc.

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6pt-sika posted this 19 January 2016

admiral wrote: Personally, when loading anything but dove loads, I treat shotshell loading just like metallic. I weigh powder and shot, use a loading block, etc. When I load Bismuth I weigh the shot . With buckshot I count the pellets . But as far as the powders concerned it gets dumped the same as it would for dove/skeet/trap/sporting loads . Also in my 12 gauge slug loads it all pretty much the same except for seating the Lyman 525 slug in the Claybuster WAA12 wad .

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