Glass bedding Rem 700 composit stock

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  • Last Post 11 February 2014
R. Dupraz posted this 28 November 2013

Any one out there have experience glass bedding a Rem. 700 that is in a composit stock that has an aluminum block-cradle insert? Have done it in wood over the years but never one of the above. Need info on a few details. Ken?, Tom?

RD

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6pt-sika posted this 29 November 2013

My 700 BDL rebarreled 6.5-06 is in a Remington synthetic stock thats glass bedded now but it isn't one of the ones with an aluminum bedding block .

This also isn't the original stock to the action as thats the first checkering pattern from 62-66 period .

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6pt-sika posted this 29 November 2013

I was always under the impression for a factory rifle the aluminum bedding block setup was about as good as it could get unless one was messing with a full blown benchrest setup .

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 November 2013

here is a benchrest quality gunsmith sort of in your area ... i would phone him and see if has some advice on this. tell him hi.


www.sgrcustomrifles.com stan ware


i am stuck with the pillar bedding system, i like the idea of dead-stop action bolts. if epoxies stick great to your stock material, i like a 1 inch dia. front pillar ( milled relief for the recoil lug. ) , and 5/8 or 3/4 rear pillar. if your stock material is from milk jug slimy goo, epoxy will not stick well so you need to attain as large of surface area as possible for the front pillar. then use a urethane adhesive, which sticks better to polyethylene-like materials. actually if i had a poly-e stock, i would get a takeoff wood BDL stock on ebay ...about $100 for a nice one; then pillar bed it.


i should mention that i am a guy that insists on fixing things that are already working .. ( g ) .

ken

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R. Dupraz posted this 29 November 2013

Thanks for responding Gents:

This rifle is a new Rem. 700 Police .308. I bought it with the sole purpose of it being a dedicated cast bullet bench gun. I have only put about 100 rounds through it so far. And all were five shot groups at 100 yds. with cast loads. It looks like there is some potential there.

These rifles come with an H-S Precision composit stock, and an aluminum bedding block-cradle which can be glass bedded. I have never seen one of these, let alone looked at how these were bedded this way. And I too had the perception that this block-cradle arrangement was the ultimate solution.

Initially after seeing how the action fits into the cradle and block, I had some reservations. For one thing the receiver ring does not bottom out in the cradle but rests on the top two narrow rails on either side of the front part of the cradle. My feeble mind says that when the action screws are torqued down, there has got to be uneven pressure on the receiver ring. And the recoil lug has no support on either side. It appears that the action screws are the only things that prevent action torque. Almost without exception, every group has shown a horizontal stringing trend to some extent, even the very small ones. And, after searching far an wide on the net, in every case that I have been able to find, these rifles do benefit when the actions are glass bedded in the conventional way.

And there are pillers already glued in the stock. A full length one for the receiver ring screw and a shorter piller that the tang rests on.

Finally, thanks Ken for that gunsmith link. He is not too far off the beaten trail that leads to one of my sons and the granddaughters. Another excuse to make the trip more often.

There are some other issues with this rifle but am slowly getting them sorted out, I think.

RD

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6pt-sika posted this 29 November 2013

R. Dupraz wrote: Thanks for responding Gents:

This rifle is a new Rem. 700 Police .308. I bought it with the sole purpose of it being a dedicated cast bullet bench gun. I have only put about 100 rounds through it so far. And all were five shot groups at 100 yds. with cast loads. It looks like there is some potential there.

These rifles come with an H-S Precision composit stock, and an aluminum bedding block-cradle which can be glass bedded. I have never seen one of these, let alone looked at how these were bedded this way. And I too had the perception that this block-cradle arrangement was the ultimate solution.

Initially after seeing how the action fits into the cradle and block, I had some reservations. For one thing the receiver ring does not bottom out in the cradle but rests on the top two narrow rails on either side of the front part of the cradle. My feeble mind says that when the action screws are torqued down, there has got to be uneven pressure on the receiver ring. And the recoil lug has no support on either side. It appears that the action screws are the only things that prevent action torque. Almost without exception, every group has shown a horizontal stringing trend to some extent, even the very small ones. And, after searching far an wide on the net, in every case that I have been able to find, these rifles do benefit when the actions are glass bedded in the conventional way.

And there are pillers already glued in the stock. A full length one for the receiver ring screw and a shorter piller that the tang rests on.

Finally, thanks Ken for that gunsmith link. He is not too far off the beaten trail that leads to one of my sons and the granddaughters. Another excuse to make the trip more often.

There are some other issues with this rifle but am slowly getting them sorted out, I think.

RD

All I can say about the HS Precision stocks is this , I've owned a number of Remington factory heavy barrel rifles that came from the factory with these stocks and they all shot very very well . I've also seen a number of them that friends and or customers had and they all seemed to do great as well .

 

Alot of folks will turn there nose up at this . But when I get a new bolt action factory rifle and am unsure of the gun . I'll take aluminum shimms and shim the action up in the stock so the barrels free floated etc and then work up loads until I'm satisfied . And sometimes I take them out and glass bed and sometimes I just leave the shims in and hunt or shoot it that way . I know this doesn't follow the basic rules but it has worked for me in the past and I will continue to do it until it doesn't work . Now by no means am I saying you should shim up instead of , I just do that in case the gun doesn't shoot to suit me then I drop it back down in the stock and send it down the road . Alot of folks around here see a floated bedded rifle for sale and they right away assume it doesn't shoot . Which in some cases they may be correct but in others they aren't .

 

My old 98 Mauser 6.5-06 was glass bedded in a wooden stock and the guy that bedded it likes to glass the first two inches of the barrel directly in front of the recoil lug . Now I see no reason this would make any difference but I can tell you for a #3 Shilen barrel that rifle shot some extremely small groups . Certainly not in the 2's or 3's but it was no big deal shooting three shots at 100 yards in 1/2” . And these were my hunting loads using a 14x scope !

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 30 November 2013

the term pillar ” bedding ” is slightly misleading ... the pillars do very little themselves to locate the action .. in fact done correctly, the action bolts ” float ” in the center holes in the pillars. the pillars are a way to get predictable and repeatable force to pull the action ( and some of the barrel if you like ) ... into some sort of ” bedding device ” which makes the rifle upon firing recoil, shake, vibrate, jump ...etc. ... the same way every shot. on the remington 700, the front recoil blade or lug is the area of interest. it needs to be totally controlled for each shot, and be locked to the handle ( stock ) without monkey motion ...and as much contact as possible.

many of the fanatical benchresters just glue the barreled action into the stock ... this shoots great, but for a hunting/working rifle that might be getting wet this could be a nuisance.


it sounds as if your remmy plate bedding is suspect; i do know some demanding shooters rebed their in-stock bedding plates, also add a layer of glass ( i like alum. filled devcon, it's not fussy ) .. over the factory plates ( cradle ). also, if your rear ” pillar ” is not full length, it seems more of a marketing ploy ( g ) .

there is an interesting discussion about encapsulating the front recoil blade ... i like to totally encapsulate, then after curing, take my little dremel and relieve only 0.050 or so under the bottom of the blade. ask stan what he thinks.


additionally, advise to do at least a kitchen table blue-print. i don't trust remmy to do much fine tuning even on their more serious rifles. check for rear of both locking lugs even contact ... and test front of bolt face to have even contact on base of cartridge. heck, some fanatics even pop out their ejection plungers to minimize cocking the cartridge ... and throwing hot brass at the guy to your right.

good luck, ken

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Little Debbie posted this 30 November 2013

RD,

I've put several rifles together using the HS Precision stocks with the v block bedding insert. I feel they do shoot a little better when you glass bed them. Just as important is the proper tension on the guard screws. I've settled on 65 INCH pounds for both screws. I always clamp the barrel in a padded vise with the trigger up and set the magazine box in the action cutout. I then place the stock on and then the floor plate trigger guard. Make sure the stock is on right and get your screws in and torqued. The action will be centered in the bedding that way.

For the glass bedding the key is to have only the back of the recoil lug having contact with the stock. Cover the front, sides and bottom with two or three layers of masking tape. Take a sharp blade and trim tape so only the back of the lug is exposed. Rough everything up and do your glass bedding. It doesn't take much bedding material with these stocks so mix accordingly. Occasionally I've had to “bed the chamber” with these stocks, but I think it was something with the rifle/ barrel and any stock would have benefitted. My heavy barreled .300 Win mag in a H-S stock required this. Good luck.

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R. Dupraz posted this 30 November 2013

Little Debbie:

So you have noticed an improvement in group size? Do you relieve the inside of the stock at all or just fill up the inside and then seat the barreled action back in on top of the aluminum cradle? When bedding a wood stock, I have always removed some wood in order to have some clearance around the action for the glass. And then also bedded about one inch of the barrel breach ahead of the action as well. Leaving the barrel free floating.

This insert is not a V-block but a flat aluminum affair from the tang up to the front of the action. The front part of this insert is shaped like a tube that is missing the top part. The bottom of the receiver ring then rests on top of the two narrow sides of this half tube affair but does not rest against the bottom.

Looks like a production friendly arrangement to me. Really not too crazy about the way that it's done. Think I'm going to make some changes.

thanks

RD

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Little Debbie posted this 01 December 2013

RD,

Yes I do see an accuracy increase when glass bedding these stocks. I built my 300 Win mag years ago with a very heavy Shilen barrel. It shot ok, around an inch, but not what I expected. A wise old gunsmith suggested bedding to prevent and movement or rolling. I wasn't that keen on his theory but had spent a lot of time and money on the rifle. After bedding the rifle has shot some 3/8 inch groups at 100 with two different loads/bullets, several 4 inch groups at 600, and right at MOA at 900 meters. The rifles with the H-S stocks I've glass bedded don't lose zero when the action is removed and replaced, as long as I assemble them upside down and torque the guard screws properly. The only design that come close to this are a couple of my old Ruger 77s; glass bedded and torqued guard screws. They may require a couple of clicks to re-zero. I have not seen the block you describe. The only clearance I would make is the bottom of the recoil lug, but I would be surprised if it touched even with a layer of tape. I would leave the aluminum bedding block alone unless there is some indication that your action is not sitting flat in the bedding. I always remove wood on wood stocks when bedding too, but I do it to prevent wood compression expansion from oil, moisture etc. Let use know how it goes. H-S precision has always been an excellent no BS, no gimmick outfit.

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R. Dupraz posted this 02 December 2013

Little Debbie:

Thanks for reply. Your results are consistant with all the other information that I have found after bedding these HS precision stocked Remingtons. Mostly long and short range bench shooters.

So, intend to get at it one of these first days. Maybe if I can find my digital, I'll take a few photos.

Thanks

RD

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MKastning posted this 06 December 2013

RD has a new secret weapon! Congrats!

I can't wait to see pictures and hear of the results!

MK

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R. Dupraz posted this 06 December 2013

Hi Mike:

Let's just say that I needed something that would keep up with the rest of you pilgrims. After KC, I have pretty much recovered, I think, and have started over at the beginning once again. This game can't be that hard!

Anyway, things might be looking up at this point, maybe. So who cares if we have to start burning the rest of the furniture to keep warm. Small price to pay.

But, at a standstill for the time being. - 4 today. Looking for a Weaver T-24 or some such. Know where there might be one?

RD

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 06 December 2013

scopes etc.... i have bot used stuff from shooter's corner ... ( the LIST ) bob white ...call him he has more stuff than on the list. he was pretty straight with me, told me correct condition . he usually has some weaver t's.

i like the old weaver steel t types. i have a 1984 t-20 that still works perfectly.

ken

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R. Dupraz posted this 06 December 2013

I just checked that Shooters Corner web site and my eyes got blurry after the first couple of pages. Man, he's got stuff! I've got an old steel tube T-12 that I bought new back in the day. Had it on a Rem. 40X Single shot 25-06. A prairie dog gun supreme! But, while the scope is still in perfect shape, the objective lenses are starting to separate and it is getting cloudy. Can get it fixed but not sure if I want to wait the 18 months turn around. Makes me sad, cuz I really like those steel tube T's. We used to call them dial-a dog scopes, because that's what you could do with them. This rifle could use a little more weight anyway.

Will probably end up just getting a new aluminum T-24.

RD

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6mmintl posted this 11 February 2014

Having bedded a few of these my take is this:

  1. scrape off all the overmold off of edges of aluminum bedding block.
  2. Clean off front receiver ring and back tang areas with scotchbrite (green laundry scowering pad) and wipe with acetone.
  3. I punch out front/rear receiver screw inserts and replace front screw with fitted .002” clearance to receiver screw insert and epoxy in place. I remake rear receiver screw insert (.002” clearance to screw dia.) with undersize outer diameter to just fit rear hole and try assembling action to stock to see if screws are binding, if not epoxy in rear bushing and assemble rifle to cure.

  4. After screw insert cure remove action and trim excess epoxy, I now cut 5 degree draft angle on sides of factory lug each side (for easy removal or you can file 1-2 deg. a side if competent) and radius all edges of recoil lug. Rough recoil lug recess with Dremel tool to get good adhesion for epoxy, wipe recess with acetone, do not get acetone on stock finish.

  5. I now use modeling clay and fill in all recesses that may cause action to stick once bedded, I now use a good paste wax or “shoe polish” and wax screws and action (over waxed areas also). Make thin rubber spacers to float/locate barrel in stock channel during bedding.

  6. For bedding material go with a metal filler (I use Devcon St. Stl. epoxy. I put a thin film on rear tang of receiver area on bedding block, I fill area of front receiver ring only and recoil recess cavity, you do not need to put epoxy on sides of action/bedding block.

  7. Remove magazine box from lower metal trigger assy.and wax inside bottom of floorplate and ends. Rewax action screws, tape lower mag box to stock, tape screws to trigger guard assy. (be careful to use Q-Tips to remove epoxy from end of screw jutting thru epoxy film.

  8. Make sure you use lots of wax inside receiver threaded action bolt holes before assy.to keep epoxy from clogging holes and freezing bolts to action. Rewax action.

  9. All of the above depends on cure time with epoxy, Devcon is 12 hour cure, stay away from 1-6 hour cure epoxies unless you can really manage your action/metal/stock prep.

  10. Carefully place action into stock insure thin rubber spacers float/locate barrel in stock channel and screw in front rear action screws till they are just firm/lightly snug and now use Q-tips to start removing excess epoxy around outside of action. Go inside of stock mag box area and remove excess that has oozed out.

  11. Use a good soft cloth and continue to wipe excess epoxy off of sides of stock around action till clean, I have waxed outside of stock before epoxying in the past but the epoxy is so abrasive that during the wiping off of excess epoxy it wipes away the wax.

  12. Set rifle in a cradle and let it sit coming back after 30 minutes to keep track of/clean up of more oozing epoxy while it cures.

  13. After 12 hours remove action screws and with a plastic faced mallet rap the action a few times and action will loosen, insert bolt partially into action, carefully grab barrel at front of stock and under bolt shroud and “Rock” action up and down/front and back and slowly wedge action out of stock.

  14. Now with action out use a fine tooth flat file and trim/file all edges 45 degrees down from top edge being careful to not over file edges. Use a fine obround jewelers file and radius/break all edges around recoil lug recess, clean/trim excess epoxy/wax/clay from action/action screw inserts, magazine well, action screws and assemble action back into stock and recheck fit/barrel location in barrel channel. If every thing looks good remove action and clean with acetone/air dry/assemble trigger/trigger guard with box/spring/follower and reassemble checking for no binding and function of action.

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