Wanted to buy: 38/45 Clerke forming die, die sets and info

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Seattle slug posted this 3 weeks ago

I have an extra 1911 45 acp, and an extra 38 super barrel. I want another spring project.

Anyone have any experience with the choice?

Seattle slug

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MP1886 posted this 3 weeks ago

Excellent little round. I've been shooting one for 40 years. Mine was done up on a 9mm barrel. The forming dies and loading dies I have were made my Hollywood Dies out in California and I don't know if they are still in existance, but I'm positive CH dies will have or make them. Now let me tell you about the forming DIES. It's not just one die, it's four! It's quite a step down taking a 45acp to the 38. The 38/45 feeds absolutely flawlessy. It's not meant to be a hot hotrod round. If you do it'll blow the web out of the case unless you made it up on a ramped barrel. The firing pin hole will cut donuts out of the primer cup too when the pressure is high. My pistol had the firing pin hole bushed to a 9mm/38Super firing pin. Using 308 cases to make a thicker stronger case isn't real great either, it's a hell of a sizing job and you have to either ream or neck turn the necks. Using large rifle primers in 45acp cases to stop the donut cutting isn't such a great option either and it's plenty hard to seat the rifle primer flush. Bo Clerk meant the round for target shooting and easy chambering and it's best to leave it at that. My barrel is hand fitted in a match pistol and it's one of the most accurate pistols on the 1911 that I own. Remember like I said don't load it to be a magnum. I told a friend that I had a barre done for that and he went ahead and did it against my advice. It blew the wed out of the 45acp case, blew the magazine out of the pistol and wrecked it, and blew the both grips off the gun. The wood splinters in his hand weren't fun.

Anyways it's a great and fun cartridge. Have fun with it if you decide to build it.

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Eutectic posted this 3 weeks ago

The Clerk 38/45 was a nice idea. It would even feed empty cases because of the necked case.This meant full wadcutters, for which it was originally intended, were no problem.This was a cheap way to get the advantages of a 38 Special with out expensively modifying a 1911 frame.

The 38/45 is tempting because the only thing you need is a barrel. The advantage for target shooting is the lighter bullets than 45. Another advantage other shooters will gladly return the brass to you since they cannot use it. No one else on the line has a 38/45 Are they smarter than you?? In reality you still needed an extra pistol for 38/45 as there is no time for barrel changes at a match.

MP1886 is absolutely correct, the 45 ACP case is not designed for high pressure and attempts to hot-rod the 38/45 are a bad idea. The other problem is the short neck which means bullets must be seated deep, exposing the lube grooves on cast bullets. The 38 Super is far more friendly for cast bullets and will exceed what the 38/45 can safely do.

The need for multiple reductions to make the cases was a pain. Of course they needed to be lubricated for case forming. You will be tempted to try to make them in one pass. This does not work, but you will try it. You will spend a lot of time on your knees, after all the trouble making them, loosing one is a tragedy.

Then the second pain, they must be lubricated for sizing after firing! Since the pistol insists on throwing them in the dirt, they must be perfectly cleaned or they will trash the dies. Then the lubricant must be washed off. No carbide dies, which make life easier with 45 ACP.

Then there is the third pain - neck splits. Way too common, several every time you shoot 50. Let's anneal the brass, it must be hardened from case forming. Carefully as the case is short and you must not soften the web. Remember that short neck? Fully annealed the neck tension is so low the bullets are not held securely. Deeper seating on feeding happens and accuracy goes to hell.

Pretty soon you get tired and go back to the 45 ACP. Fortunately, this is easy-you have the barrel.