LDPE

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  • Last Post 07 December 2023
beagle6 posted this 30 November 2023

Received my  latest copy of THE FOULING SHOT and there was mention of a LDPE wad . What is that?

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Tom Acheson posted this 04 December 2023

As a side note in my 40 cal  2 1/2 I found that stackin (2) poly wads and an equal thickness veggie wad improved accuracy. But...the powder is more compressed than "normal" and the felt recoil seened a bit stiffer.

This thing with wads is that it is one HUGE experiment. Every variable...powder granulation, primer, wad material, wad thickness, amount of compression, etc. impacts downrange results. As Pat has noted here...."you just have to try it".

That's why my last BP purchase was a case of 25-pounds....important...ask for all one-pound bottles to be of the same lot! It was a month before I retired and I was "given permission" to make a one time large purchase....for much experimenting!

Tom

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gnoahhh posted this 01 December 2023

What is Neidner's recipe? 

4oz beeswax, 2oz colloidal graphite, 4oz Japan wax. All available from Amazon and/or eBay. I lessened the graphite a tad and increased Japan wax a bit to make it less brittle.

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John Alexander posted this 02 December 2023

I am fascinated by the idea of a soft wad helping to seal a cast bullet loads or a wax wad providing whatever bullet lubes provide and have been since reading Phil Sharp's book a long time ago. It seems so logical.  I have bought such wads and the equipment to make them and seat them in the case neck, as well as making them myself out of various materials. LDPE seems the logical material to seal the gases and that's what Merrill Martin used in a series of articles in Precision Shooting. I bought somewhat less than an acre of the stuff in a moment of madness.

I have tried them from time to time, but could never see an improvement in accuracy. In fact usually a slight decrease. So I alway get discouraged and give it up.  If anybody is getting a clear increase in accuracy for smokeless CB loads, please tell us how you are doing it.  I am hot to give it another try.

John          

 

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JeffinNZ posted this 01 December 2023

Recycling mark 4 is what to look for.  Coffee can lids, baby formula lids etc, etc.

Cheers from New Zealand

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pat i. posted this 02 December 2023

I'm going to start playing with them with plain base in my 30/06. I can't see where they'd be any advantage when using them with gas checked bullets but they might help with a plain base. Best way to tell is to try it I suppose.

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4060may posted this 04 December 2023

Pat  FWIW

I am half way thru my second sheet of LDPE 4'x8', shooting BPCR and black powder, 40-60 Maynard, F210, 60 grains Goex FFg,Drop Tubed and compressed, RCBS 400grCSA, sized .410, Douglas 1-16, Danish RB

I bought my first wad punch from Fred Cornell, asking him to make it for .437 dia. thinking this was the dim of the inside of the case where the .410 bullets base was.......after the 4th or 5th shooting I started getting cracks in the case where the bullet base was, the lesson is, with straight cases and BP,don't make the wad bigger than the bullet, I started with 500 cases lost 300 with fatigue cracks...lesson learned

to make it clear, the wad expands and grabs the brass and stretches it, causing stress cracks

make sure there is no lube on the base of the bullet or the wad goes with the bullet , sometimes or not., most of the BPCR guys put a newsprint wad between the bullet and LDPE wad

Back when Merrill Martin, did the articles on wads and fire lapping, Rich Weber and I both did rifles for his test, I did a 6.5 Japanese Carbine, made cleaning better, accuracy was still, ehh, we tried using the wads in my 30-40Krag no.3Ruger, using the Saeco,plain base bullet,  didn't seem to make any difference at about 1400-1450 FPS, I have used LDPE wads and Gasket material,Aka Fiber wads in my 32-40 Breech seated, wasn't worth the effort, actually I think the groups were more scattered, my rifle only, YMMV

I did hit a 500M ram with the carbine,only took 40 shots

 

Chuck

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Tom Acheson posted this 04 December 2023

Pat,

Back when I was infected with Merrill Martin's articles I bought a 4'x8' sheet of LDPE. It rolled up a bit for transfer. My use then was for straight walled revolver cartridges. That was mid 80's or so. Fast forward to today. The wad is not an accuracy aid in the BPCR world, it serves as a needed barrier between the bullet base and the compressed powder.

But you might get lucky and find that in your smokeless piwder situation, the wad aids accuracy.

Tom

 

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4060may posted this 04 December 2023

.060 LDPE, standard sheet size from the local plastic company, want a piece? envelope size,, a standard hand held paper punch, makes a wad about .300+, I remember punching milk cartons for wads with it, the didn't work either, for me.

I also use .060  cork gasket material on top of the LDPE, in my 38-50 Hepburn with PP bullets, for a reason I am not sure of, it works better, Black Powder is VOODOO sometimes, I think the shock against the bullet base is somewhat less with the cork, case is full of powder, 63 grains of OLDE 1 1/2, compressed .080, 365 grain bullet, patched to groove, the throat is long  in this barrel, Shilen 1-12

If Tom has the Merrill Martin articles, it would be worth your time to read them, I had the 22lr articles and let someone borrow them, long gone

have fun

Chuck

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4060may posted this 04 December 2023

https://jmsplastics.com/product/low-density-polyethylene-ldpe/

.060 thick 24 x 48 to 48 x 96  not sure of the price

I paid $24.00/ 48x96 sheet , about 1994 IIRC

I looked, I was wrong I bought 3 sheets, have half of one left, I was shooting min of 2 matches a month, sometimes 3, plus playing aka practice

we tried them in the 40cal ML, bigger pain than it needs to be, if I was shooting bullets in my ML, no patch , I think is would help, I know felt wads do.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 05 December 2023

I have found the LDPE wads only make a difference in loads that are not working well.  If you've got a good, accurate load that shoots clean, there's no need to add anything.  If you have a load that wants to lead the bore, the extra bore sealing of the wad might help.  They also help in really hot loads. 

A friend is forced to shoot undersize bullets in his 38-55 because of the combination of tight chamber and "loose" bore - both to SAAMI spec!  He puts two LDPE wads under the bullets and it seals the bore and the rifle shoots great.

Glenn

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pat i. posted this 07 December 2023

I took my 06 plain base out today to try some LDPE wads. As I suspected they didn't do anything for accuracy, in fact they might have made it worse, but they sure kept the barrel clean. It was worth a try but I'll stick to just the bullet from now on. Maybe when it warms up a bit next year I'll try them again but as of now they're a non starter. I sent my Wilson die out today to have it modified to size more of the neck. It can't be made to size the whole neck because of the 06 neck length but it should be more than enough to have the neck sized past the bullet base when seated in the throat. As it is now the unsized neck diameter is .344. The neck walls are .014/.015. That leaves at best .014 windage past the sized portion of the neck. My bullets are sized .3095 and seat below where the die stops sizing. Maybe having total contact with the neck will improve things a little. Guess I'll find out eventually.

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pat i. posted this 30 November 2023

Low density polyethylene. Neco used to and maybe still does sell P-Wads. It's just a little piece of flexible plastic you put in the neck of the case before seating the bullet to seal and protect the base of a cast bullet. I have some and have a die to cut my own but never saw an improvement. But it's been a long while so maybe I didn't give them a good enough test.

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Tom Acheson posted this 30 November 2023

The wads, either 0.030" or 0.060" thick, are commonly used in plain base cast bullet loads with black powder in black powder cartridge loads. Alternately, "veggie wads" of similar thicknesses are used also.

Buffalo Arms is one source where they can be bought. You can also buy a press mounted wad punch (various sizes) to make your own from sheets of either material. Those odd looking funnel like shields that are put on a dog or cat, to keep them from chewing or licking a recent surgery or other "ouie" , are often made of LDPE and make good wad material.

Tom

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pat i. posted this 01 December 2023

I have a 30 caliber press mounted wad punch and some of that material they use on dock doors to keep the wind out. It's in my loading room somewhere and I don't remember how thick it is.

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gnoahhh posted this 01 December 2023

I use a wax wad under plain base bullets. Home brew, slightly altered from Niedner's recipe. Poured onto wax paper to create a sheet, case mouth pressed into it like a cookie cutter, bullet seated on top of it. I swear it helps accuracy - at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I initially tried using sheets of dental wax and there was a definite improvement in accuracy. But after each range session I had to work to remove a hard waxy build up in front of the chamber so I stopped it. Funny thing is there was no falling off of accuracy as the wax built up. Weird.

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lotech posted this 01 December 2023

I haven't used it in years and never very much then, but I bought a grease wad extruder from Cabine Tree fifteen or more years ago.  I know this particular extruder is no longer available, but there may be others in production or perhaps can be special ordered. Mine uses any bullet lube and it can be adjusted to extrude a ribbon of lube, any thickness, about an inch wide and any practical length. The wads can be pressed from the ribbon with an open case neck or other tool. 

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Clod Hopper posted this 01 December 2023

What is Neidner's recipe?  Are plastic lids close enough?  Other sources for LDPE?

Dale M. Lock

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OU812 posted this 01 December 2023

Grease cookies do work good at softening black powder fouling.

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pat i. posted this 01 December 2023

What is Neidner's recipe?  Are plastic lids close enough?  Other sources for LDPE?

Since you're a fellow victim of the not so great state of "Ill"inois and shooting 30 caliber if you want you can pm me your address and I'll throw some in an envelope for you to try out before getting too involved.

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Mal in au posted this 01 December 2023

Don’t dismiss Tupperware lids,I get mine from the salvage at the op shop,they get a lot of odd lids,no use to anyone except me!! Also a good source for pewter.  Cheers Mal in au.

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