Ok, I bought a Springfield GI .45 1911 and a lee 200gr semiwadcutter mold, all the dies, etc. I've reloaded for 9mm, .38 special and various others, so I'm building up a little bit of know how. That being said, the 1911 platform is different enough that I thought I should ask the experts. I went to the range yesterday. After the first shot, the next round jammed with the nose pointing up, wedging the round in the barrel. I then managed to chamber that round with the slide back and when I released the slide it jammed the round in the barrel ending my day with the .45. I guess the extractor couldn't make it into the rim? Whatever, that's not the real problem anyway.
I'd appreciate some obvious things to address to fix the feed problem. Just some advice on what to try with the rounds. I loaded them to the suggested length for a similar swc, maybe shorten it up a little? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
-Aaron
Loading lead for my new 1911
- 2.1K Views
- Last Post 17 August 2010
Attached Files
Alloy too soft for the surface finish of the feed ramp. This is where lino and heat treated WW's come into play with handguns.
OAL is too short / magazine is designed for hardball GI loads. With this the feed lip go too far forward over the follower not releasing the case soon enough.
Final case diameter too large. Use a taper crimp die and guage the rounds for size.
Powder charge too light for main spring. Most standard springs made for GI ball will not feed less the 4.2 grains of Bullseye or 5.0 grains of WW231 with 200's.
Ric
Attached Files
Attached Files
The H&G #68 200 gr SWC was designed so that the nose of the bullet hit the ramp like the 230 gr hardball bullet. It will feed factory stock GI autos. The Lee, while a good bullet does not feed as well as the #68. However, in a 1911 platform that has been tuned for SWC's the Lee will work just fine.
Another possibility is to get a Lee Six Cavity 230 gr TC bullet mould (I much prefer the standard lube version). This one will feed as well as hardball and shoots nearly as well as the #68 H&G. It DOES have a bit more recoil, but I don't find it offensive. The Lee TC has a nice flat meplat and terminal performance is considerably better than hard ball.
If you want an excellent copy of the H&G #68 mould, MiHec (one of the cast boolit forum group buy “go to guys” offers one). I can personally recommend this one without reservation. I cannot say it will feed in your 1911 (I haven't seen your 1911) but it will certainly feed in most of them. I have shot close to 10,000 of these bullets in the past couple of years. They are my absolute favorite in both my 1911's and my 625 Smiths.
http://www.mp-molds.com/shopping/pgm-moreinformation.php?id=4&=SID
FWIW Dale53
Attached Files
Magazine lips need to be adjusted so brass points slightly up. Hard ball is designed to jump up towards chamber top so bullet can slide on top of chamber for solid entrance. Lead semiwadcutters hit top of chamber and jam when mag lips are left in factory condition. I have been loading tumble lube lee 200gr semi wads for a while now, casting straight wheel weights.
I will see if I can get a picture of the feed lip mod.
Good luck,
Bob D
Attached Files
canlupo; I have three 1911 platforms. Two are custom, built from the ground up (one from a Series 70 Colt and one from a proprietary frame) and one is an out-of-the box Kimber CDP Ultra II (3” barrel).
Many years ago, when I was shooting IPSC, I bought a case of military issue magazines. All three of my guns work perfectly with military issue magazines (as well as Kimber, Wilson, and McCormick magazines). I have done absolutely NOTHING to the magazines other than load and shoot them. My GUNS (other than the Kimber) were tuned to shoot SWC's. The Kimber came that way.
Just a thought... Dale53
Attached Files
Dear Canelupo,
I read with attention your letter,it appears that your rounds are not chambering at all.
and their fault is not only that they do not cycle in the action.(If I have well understood).
Some other facts
Did you try a loaded cartridge in the chamber,having disassembled the pistol ,of course.?
Which Lee 200 grains bullet did you buy?
At what diameter is it sized?
452-200 SWC feeds from 90%of modern 911
TL 452-200-SWC Wont feed from my 5 911 barrels,shoots well in my 45lc revolver.
TL 452-230 TC and 452 230 TC Feed 100% and shoot well
TL 452 -230-2R 100% reliable ,accurate in all my 45auto and 45Lc revolvers & carbines,being a roundnose it makes ricochets at the lower velocities.
Get the Kuhnhausen books,they do are the Gunsmith's Gospel.
If the bullet's nose is compatible with your loading ramp,all other problems are positively cured bY Lee's factory crimp die.
Study Lee precision catalog,in this pic you can see the good swc 200 grainer,the revolver only swc and the reliable 230 gr roundnose.
THE 358 swc is an innocent bystanmder.
All if I had not made a mess with my pictures.
Attached Files
Post some pictures of your defective rounds,they'll help my diagnosis.
The 911 pistol,being the best handgun in the World should perform flawlessly with the correct 200 grs SWC.
This bag of wind is blasting away at bowling pins with the Lee (Henseley & gibbs clone)200 grains SWC,using Armando Piscetta' s comp gun.
Attached Files
First off, thanks for all the help. My feed ramp has not been altered at all. This is a stripped down, stock 1911 with no frills at all. I wanted a SWC profile, and had read about how this mold fed very well for many people, even with my model pistol. That leads me to believe the problem is in seating depth or crimp. I used the barrel as a seating depth guage (which I do with all my semi-autos). I am confident that the seating depth is good (at least good enough), so I may experiment a bit with crimping. The only problem is that if I make a change and it jams up as soon as I get to the range, I've wasted a bunch of time and money. Love the replies. If anyone has any more tips, please post them. I enjoy hearing all of your ideas and input about the 1911. I'll keep people posted. Thanks again -Aaron
Attached Files
There are two alterations to the feed ramp that I'm aware of that facilitate the feeding of SWCs. This is based on reading and trial and error, not professional experience. One is to widen the ramp's lower half and the other is to slightly break the rollover point in the chamber, just rounding it off a bit more than GI stock. These are doable with hand tools if you're handy and willing. I'd definitely recommend getting the Kuhnhausen book though before you go grinding away, it's easy to ruin a barrel by taking too much off the wrong places. My 1911s will feed the old Ideal 452460 and the Lee 200 TLSWC. What you described does sound like it's short stroking (or whatever it's called), too light a load for the spring, not cycling all the way back. These guns were designed to run hard. EDIT; If it feeds to the point the new round enters the chamber but won't close then it's a length/size problem. But first you have to get it to break over and enter the chamber. I too am a fan of the Lee FCD and also use their 'Bulge Buster' on range pickup brass.Feeds like a champ. Also, make sure you have a good hold on that thing, no limp wristing.
Attached Files
There are two alterations to the feed ramp that I'm aware of that facilitate the feeding of SWCs. This is based on reading and trial and error, not professional experience. One is to widen the ramp's lower half and the other is to slightly break the rollover point in the chamber, just rounding it off a bit more than GI stock. These are doable with hand tools if you're handy and willing. I'd definitely recommend getting the Kuhnhausen book though before you go grinding away, it's easy to ruin a barrel by taking too much off the wrong places. My 1911s will feed the old Ideal 452460 and the Lee 200 TLSWC. What you described does sound like it's short stroking (or whatever it's called), too light a load for the spring, not cycling all the way back. These guns were designed to run hard. EDIT; If it feeds to the point the new round enters the chamber but won't close then it's a length/size problem. But first you have to get it to break over and enter the chamber. I too am a fan of the Lee FCD and also use their 'Bulge Buster' on range pickup brass.Feeds like a champ. Also, make sure you have a good hold on that thing, no limp wristing.
The round entered the chamber, but was caught with the nose of the round pointed against the top of the chamber and the base of the round still in the magazine I guess. It would seem to me that this would possibly be cause by the lips of the magazine being extended too far? Maybe shortening the lips would do something? that would be a very last resort.
Attached Files
Like what Tim said: “What you described does sound like it's short stroking (or whatever it's called), too light a load for the spring, not cycling all the way back.” You haven't told us what you are loading for a powder charge. With a hard ball spring and a 200 grain bullet, it isn't going to cycle if it isn't going at least 850 F/s.
Attached Files
Like what Tim said: “What you described does sound like it's short stroking (or whatever it's called), too light a load for the spring, not cycling all the way back.” You haven't told us what you are loading for a powder charge. With a hard ball spring and a 200 grain bullet, it isn't going to cycle if it isn't going at least 850 F/s.
I'm using a powder load of 5gr Bullseye, so i'm pretty sure that isn't the issue.
Attached Files
Shortening the lips will cause an earlier release which can be a good thing with swcs. Mag tuning has a lot of variables and a lot of ways to go wrong. Will it feed ball ammo now no problem? That will tell you something and give a base or starting point. If you can try other mags with your cb load you'll know more. You have to isolate if it's a mag issue, the gun, or the ammo. Is the gun new? Maybe it needs a good break in with some ball ammo or RN cast. I would try to find a mag that's swc friendly already and see how it works. A round top follower and paralel lips may help. The 'GI' mags are flat follower/tapered lip. That said, I have 90 yr. old mags that will still feed anything I put in there, all pitted and ugly, original spring too. Go figure. My favorite new mags are 8 rd. Mecgars, Italian I think. Very nice finish and quality. Your load sounds ok, make sure it's in spec and fits your chamber. Then borrow all the mags you can and see if any of them work. If so, mimic the one that works.
Attached Files
I am having some trouble uploading photo of mag mod for swc. Trick is to straighten the lips so the round angles up toward the chamber mouth. Factory mags have a short slightly flattened lip on forward edge. I include a mag for swc and hardball in all my custom gun packages and have not had a complaint yet.
Old style pre-70 colts have a wider flatter ramp then new style post 70s ramp. If the feed ramp is not polished, Polish the feed ramp with 400grit wet dry emery cloth, wet with cutting oil, be VERY careful not to change angle or smooth any edges on ramp. Works for me.
Still going to work on a photo for the forum.
Good luck
Bob D
Attached Files
I have 2 1911's, one a Springfield and the other a Colt. The first thing I do is run 500 rds of hardball thru them to ensure break-in / reliable functioning. Next, the feed ramp is polished. This helps a buch in reliable feeding of all bullets, especially cast. You're using a good method to check your OAL. Taper crimp is essential as the case headspaces on the mouth. If I was you, I'ds have the throat/ramp polished, try some loads and maybe switch to a 12# spring. 16# is factory and designed for standard hardball loads. If you switch springs, recoil buffers may be beneficial to reduce frame pounding if the spring is a little light. Chip McCormick magazines are very reliable with all ammo I've tried and are standard issue with Springfields.
Attached Files
I hope this comes through OK. The picture is a little out of focus. The mag on left has lips modified for swc. Right mag is standard factory. Note the lips are bent slightly upward on left mag. Original mag the lips are down in back half and up in front.
Works for me
Bob D
- #Permalink
- 0
- 0
Attached Files
Georgio
I think you misunderstood my post. I have no trouble shooting Lee 200 gr tumble lube swc in my Colt Goverment model (1953) My custom combat commander, or my Tanfoglia 45 ACP.
I was commenting on the mag feed lip mod for lead swc.
See my photo above.
Bona Fortuna
Bob D
Attached Files
Categories
- All Categories
- General Polls
- Contact Us w/ Forum Issues
- Welcome to The Cast Bullet Association Forum
- General
- Bullet Casting
-
Guns and Shooting
- AR Platform
- TC Contenders & Other Single Shot Handguns
- Shotguns
- Informal Matches & Other Shooting Events
- Gunsmithing Tips
- Gun Cleaning & Maintenance
- Optics
- Benchrest Cast Bullet Shooting
- Military Bench Rest Cast Bullet Shooting
- Silhouette Shooting
- Postal Match Cast Bullet Shooting
- Factory Guns
- Black Powder Cartridge
- Hand Guns
- Lever Guns
- Single Shot Rifles
- Bolt Action Rifles
- Military Surplus Rifles
- Plinkers Hollow
- Muzzleloaders
- Hunting
- Reloading
- Buy, Sell or Trade
- Other Information & Reference
Search
This Weeks High Earners
-
Wm Cook
20
-
Aaron
17
-
MP1886 16
-
beagle6 13
-
linoww
12
-
John Alexander
5
-
Wilderness
5
-
Rich/WIS 5
-
GWarden
5
-
4060may 5
