NOE 225-55FN at 105 yds, 10” Contender in 22 Hornet.
Needs work to close up flyers
NOE 225-55FN at 105 yds, 10” Contender in 22 Hornet.
Needs work to close up flyers
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Is this the Lee/Midsouth “Bator” design? Good shooting from a Hornet Handgun I think !
George
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Thank you, , No it's an NOE mold, 5 cavity, close clone to the RCBS BUT with a .220 nose, I've asked for any interest in another GB on this one, so far no interest ??
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What kind of wind conditions did you have on shoot day?? I shoot a Bullberry 10 in stainless contender with 3-7 x 32 scope. I shoot primarily 34 gr Midsouth varmint nightmares. Gun doesn't seem to like the 45gr hornet bullets nor 50 gr or 55 gr (throat not set up for 55 gr.) I have loaded some 225438's but have yet to shoot them. (all bullets tried are flat base, not BT's.
My typical groups are a tiny bit smaller (than yours posted), usually right at 1 inch at 100 (thats my best!). Thats with fireforming rounds (K-hornet) on virgin brass, loaded with H4227. I have had some smaller groups with second loading but using same moderate fireform load after significant case massaging, trickled powder, NO WIND.
I have shot a number of other loads but the friggen wind kicks my butt every time. I stopped shooting at 100 due to wind and 34gr bullets. My chrono says things are VERY happy in velocity realm but I am in So Cal and it's windy ALWAYS in the hills where the local ranges are. I get 40 minutes from 9-9:45 am to shoot with a 1-2 mph breeze,then 5+ kicks, daily, no matter where (unless it's the dead of summer then it's 9000000 degrees. Be advised, if an animal over 4 inches appears it's dead, but.... I am shooting at paper which is less forgiving.
So the question was......... what kind of groups are you getting with your TC hornet?? The 44 gr lyman with GC I have high hopes for in bucking some wind.
My problem is I expected better groups, it's not me missing ( no boasting , just being honest). I have bad horiz. spread with 3/8 inch vert spread worst case. Like a cross on paper depending on breeze at time of squeeze.
BTW: I got 3005 fps from 10 inch barrel with lilgun and Freds super tight chamber with 34 gr nightmares...... but primer pockets wont hold a cannonball now, they are sized for LR primers now .... no head separation though and the blowback debris didn't make it to my face. Nice! And ---No I was a grain below textbook known max loads and was working up .3 gr steps. Thats what a chamber at .001 over sammi min will get you... efficient pressure makers!
At 200 yds, it's 4-5 inch groups (at best) (severe horizontal wind error with my vertical error at 4x setting, I have a hard time seeing the target, with 2 inch typical elevation error) with mild breeze like 3-4 mph. I can't typically hit a clay target at 200 even if the elevation is dialed in on the money for 200. The wind drift is scarry..... what have you seen or experienced?? For comparison, a clay is dust with my 30-30 super 15 Bullberry at 225yds from bench or with 445 SM or 357 max, every shot all day. Wind doesn't exist at 7-8 mph, but at 10 I start having to sight off target for wind.
I didn't expect the K-hornet to be so wind sensitive. And I don't want to exceed 45 gr due to rainbow trajectory out to 150 yds (the window of operation I chose it for). Lend me your wisdom and experience, please. Rifle data has no bearing when shooting a 10 inch pistol!
Thanks for starting the thread.
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Both of you are getting what I think is very good accuracy. I don't shoot SS pistols, but I imagine they are very hard to hold on the bench exactly the same each time. Those would be good groups from my H&R Hornet, which has a heavy trigger, but my Savage M40 will shoot better than I can hold. It has held the Lyman 438 into about 1” at 100 on a good day. So far the 'bator' has not done any better. I'm going to try lil gun when I can get some, I hear it's the berries in a Hornet.
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Yeah, lilgun is good but bad too. Old 4227 is super. Lilgun is good, at least in my gun. Many have found it is supreme. I have 25 lbs of Win680, the orignal cats meow. Too slow for a 10 inch barrel, but a long barrel, thats another story.
I can hold 3/4 inch groups with a handgun at 100 with a 12 inch or longer barrel if the gun will do it. Hold is not the problem, I hold better than that. I can't see the target!! (anymore). I can't return the sight picture accurately with a 4x scope, 7x has parallax issues that complicate it worse! I am only 40 but my vision has really taken a crap in the last two years. Scope or not, when things are fuzzy and floaties roam thru your vision, you have problems shooting. And the hornet with a 34 gr bullet is like shooting the 17hmr in 5mph winds. You DONT return to POA, ever!
My trigger is in ounces, not pounds. 5 or 6 last measure. Thats the only way I can gain control over 100 yds with a light, short pistol. It is nice to shoot though!
How heavy is the bator bullet?? A 55 gr cast might give close to jacket velocity with GC and slow powder. That might be an option for me to loose some of the rainbow I fear with heavy bullets.
I gotta get to the range, this not shooting for 4 months is killing me.....
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"I am only 40 but my vision has really taken a crap in the last two years."
I'm 44 and i just get frustrated trying to shoot those old military open sights.But i figure i have a limited time before its a big fuzzball,I cant hardly see pistol sights like i used to so i gave up on them except for plinking.I had an XP 100 in 221 FB that shot pretty well,but it was akward in the field.
The worst thing about getting old is getting old.
George
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The last batch of bators I cast weigh around 48.5 as cast. They are nice and fat at .2255. My plan is to work up a high velocity load for ground squirrels, but I keep going back to my old 224450. Love that bullet. The Lee mold is a son of a gun to get hot enough with those little babies. I dip the corner in the pot, cast hot, and have even tried a propane torch to heat the mold. Still get some wrinkles here and there, that's why I like the iron molds for the itty bitty ones. I'm confident I'll get the bugs out, there's tons of info here on solving those kinds of problems. It seems no matter what I run into it seems somebody already crossed that bridge here before. I read all the old Fouling Shots, it's amazing how much things haven't changed. I know one thing, it's a rare occasion when I get a rifle to hold under a inch consistently, let alone a handgun at 100, but then I don't have a real target gun. The Savage M40 is the closest thing, it's sweet.Just remember the alternative to getting old aint all that great. If either of you guys want to try some bators let me know, I'll sell ya 50 for $5, incl. shipping. Might have a wrinkle, we'll see. I think next batch I might try a ladle instead of the bottom pour, see if that helps.
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tturner53,
Please tell me more about the lee/midsouth bator bullet. Is it a special order deal? I have a Hornet Ruger that has been a jacket only rifle and would like to be able to shoot some cast in it some time. Even a plan base would be great or even better just to knock the pests out of the yard. Not that what it shoots now is a problem.
I think most Hornets have a 16 twist. I am not sure the heaver bullets do well. A cast bullet in the 40-49gr range might be good.
If it is a $20 Lee mould I would be all over it.
MichaelRix
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Hi: re: Lee Bator .22 mold. I got an extra brand new 2 cav one, $25 incl postage . contqct me off forum if interested, I am trying to find & catalogue all my piles of stuff... ken campbell, [email protected]
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Thanks for the offer Ken. Should I be interested I will contact you off forum.
However, it would be interesting to know a little about the Lee Bator mould. Size diameter, weight, gc or not, number of GG and the like? What firearm do you shoot CB's from the other Lee Bator mould you have? Your experiences would be interesting.
Do you know the back round of the Lee Bator mould design? Why did this mould design come to be?
Any help answering these questions would fill in the blank spots.
MichaelRix
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Hi... re: Lee Bator .22 mold. I really have not much knowledge of it's roots, either .... it just looks good, so I bot 3 at a group purchase. I am putting together for a customer a Ruger 77H, .22 Hornet,and using a Sako MedHvy target barrel for a .22 rimfire, this should get a good tite groove barrel, but will use a Manson standard chamber reamer so he can easily plink away at pepsi bottles. Lemme know if you need any more info. When I get organized,I also have a rem788 in .223 that shoots real good for a factory rifle; nice nice AM stock and Timney trigger makes it fun to shoot. ken campbell, Iowa
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Ken,
I found a picture o0f that Lee Bator 22 and that helps a lot.
I tried to PM you by clicking on your name and then clicking on PM but it said you spelled your name wrong. Ya sure! Don't you love computers!
So I would like to try the mould. See if you can contact me. If not we will get it done somehow.
MichaelRix
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Hi..sorry to take up forum space, but here is maybe a way to contact me. [email protected] or www.deltainc-usa.com I wanted to try the Bator for 50 and 100 yard tin can plinking, i would guess the wind will blow it around bigtime ( looks like a .22 rimfire with a fat nose ... heh heh ). ken at deltawerkes
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Since you are talking about a different bullet style than what I use, and a different style of shooting, I've hesitated to say the two words that I'm thinking.... neck sizing.
Ron
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Ron,
Not sure who you are addressing but maybe me and my large chambered Ruger.
If so, Yes you are spot on with neck-sizing. That and seating way out to touch the rifling in that long throat chamber does produce accuracy. So I do it! Just a pain in the ?#&@ to have a repeter and have to load single. BUT, I do love singleshots so o'well. Plus I hate when USA products take a back seat to the Euro made rifles. In this case I think we need to have a look at redesign for the 22 Hornet chamber as is standard in the USA. Correct me if I missed something. Been wrong before.
Me being me, I would rather have a tight short chamber and much easer with cast too. On a hunting/pest rifle it is a great way to keep extra ammo handy and dirt free.
MichaelRix
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The R77H out of the box usually shoots about 4 to 6 moa, and the factory HAS been contacted by several of us here Ruger fans ... they tell us the Hornet just shoots about that, and learn to live with it.
Upon inspection , I concluded ( 3.5 seconds ) that the bedding is nearly impossible on the 77H.... it tends to bounce off the magazine well surfaces , .... it is about as well controlled as an M1 carbine, .... or a 10-22 R (g) .... it never bounced the same from shot to shot.... such a cute little gun, however, that one or two of us decided to try Someting.... by the way, the Ruger barrel looked real good on mine, with a borescope, from the factory... also I know some 77-22 that shoot pretty good, so..
With the original 77H action & barrel, first I sunk a standard PILLAR into the rear tang screw and the front guard screw .... this still didn't provide a recoil feature that was consistent, so I sunk a recoil lug into the bottom of the barrel about 2 inches ahead of the receiver, and Devcon bedded that into the barrel. Then I Devcon bedded that into a matching well in the stock; this feature slides in and out of the stock when the stock is removed.
With a load of H4227 and a Hornady 50 gr SX, that gave me 1.0 moa, so I played with that for quite a while, and really enjoyed the little thing. I seated the bullets out to touch the lands, and shot it single shot (g), but never did try it thru the magazine I just shoot pop cans anymore.
Then being winter, I tried some real slow loads for indoor shooting lead, and managed to bulge the barrel. Just for fun, I hacksawed the barrel back behind the bulge, and it still shot 1 moa !! but was very noisy, so I saved the stock and action; a friend now wants to resurrect it and I have found a nice Sako target barrel off a rimfire (g) ... kinda back to the Hornet roots... be interesting to see how that works out.
I will have to put another recoil feature in bottom of the barrel, but having a Bridgeport makes that almost fun. almost.
hope the above helps... would you like me to send you a false barrel / chamber cut with my reamer for you to play with ... I would be glad to tinker with your rifle if we could think of some way to improve the chamber for you... but try bedding it first, at least my factory barrel was worth saving, it was the bedding that was flopping around.
regards, ken campbell hey I tried to add a photo of my stock mods... what changed, I remember putting in photos before .... I think .... do I have to put photos in photobucket or some such first ??
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