MOSINS and the pursuit of excellence

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  • Last Post 09 November 2010
Vassal posted this 26 March 2010

Awhile back I decided that when it came time to start serious work with cast bullets in the Mosin Nagant I would start a post sharing my experiences, methods, succeses and failures. I have been shooting and reloading for over a year now and have gained enough skill and know how (mostly as a result of following advice offered by my fellow members at this site) to feel confidant that I AM able to coax accuracy out of A rifle and ammunition, If IT can do it. My Mosins have been shooting very impressive groups with jacketed lately and now I would like to see if I can transfer that success to cast bullets.

I will start with a concise review of my case prep and loading methods, berfore I briefly describe my gun care and maintenance as well as shooting procedures. That way those interested can better understand my results and better use that information.

CASE PREP------As of now I use exclusively Serbian Brass. This is branded Prvi-Partisan, and carries a headstamp of - PPU. I use a Lyman trimmer to trim them to length (they start a bit short at 2.095") Chamfer with a lee tool, de-burr the Flashhole with an RCBS tool, Uniform the thickness of the necks by turning with a Forester handheld neck turner. 

SIZING-------Using my RCBS Rockhucker IV, I am using standard RCBS Dies, a Full-length and seperate Neck only sizer and a standard seater, For cast (and some jacketed) I use a carefully adjusted Lyman M die - long die body with a 31cal expander inside. and a Lee factory Crimp die, when crimp is desired.

I try to neck size only as much as possible, though I am not certain that it is improving accuracy, it may be harming. That is a test to come, which is high on the priority list.

For casting I will be using primarily two bullets, with the more frequent use of one -

the LBT-315-175-sp.8

The other is an adaptation of the well known design originally used by Mighty Ed Harris - the Lee 155-2r 

I do NOT use a lubrisizer of any sort. currently I can not justify the large initial cost of the machine itself and the MANY dies that I would need. I have the base level LEE press along with Lee sizer dies of the appropriate sizes. I also use this press with a Lee universal decapper to de prime.

Another likely unusual fact about my process is cleaning. After I deprime, I use a LEE Primer pocket cleaner to remove debris; I then either clean by hand, by using the Lee shell holders which allow the attachment to a drill, or, if needed, by using a bath in Birchwood Casey's Brass Cartridge Case Cleaner. The drawback is that the cases are wet and need about half a day (or more) to dry. A tumbler is something I will add only when I have enough guns, ammo, backup pieces and essential tools to be safe, and contented with the shooting of match quality ammo for the rest of my life. Or maybe I'll get a whim and just by one.:thinking:

I shoot two guns with cast (for now) a 1938 M91-30, which was apparently refurbed after '45 because it has a very clean (perfect) laminated stock, perfect bluing, few cartouches and a brand new bore. How that happened-I don't know, but I saw it and SNAPPED it up. I also will be using a 1967 M39. This gun was unfired, unissued and I have the arsenal tag.

These are  lubed and cleaned with JB bore cleaner and Boreshine, once. I will establish a cleaning regimen after shooting but will try very hard to clean as little as possible. I shoot off of sand bags which sit on top of blocks cut for this specific purpose. Not as nice as a rest but once I got it figured out the heights are the same for all Mosins; it is only when I try to use a different gun that it becomes difficult.

 

 

 

 

  I will develop some loads and present targets in the next few days!

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DAMRON G posted this 09 November 2010

Ed Harris wrote: George you have somehow evoked Loki and angered the forest trolls. You must clean your rifle with poisonous venom and make an offering of fire lit from the vile droppings to Odin to purify it. I am about to resort to cleaning the rifle though i detest doing so! The only thing i have changed is having gone from NRA formula to Lee Liq. alox on some of the plainbase loads.There is a possibility of lube overlap having effects.Could it be?

George

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nimrod posted this 09 November 2010

I see what I've been doing wrong now!

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Ed Harris posted this 09 November 2010

canalupo wrote: I currently evoke the travelocity gnome for such cleansings or the E-trade Kid.

Bob D I suppose that's OK, but a hasty votive, torching off used, dirty gun cleaning patches and Ed's Red flushed from the bore into a jar lid seem an appropriate burnt offering to conjure up the Waldgeist while chanting Old Dan Tucker or whatever tune floats your boat.   8-)

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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canalupo posted this 09 November 2010

I currently evoke the travelocity gnome for such cleansings or the E-trade Kid.

Bob D

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JetMech posted this 09 November 2010

Ed Harris wrote: George you have somehow evoked Loki and angered the forest trolls. You must clean your rifle with poisonous venom and make an offering of fire lit from the vile droppings to Odin to purify it. I've heard that the use of mass produced, gilding metal projectiles would result in such a reaction. That's why I religiously avoid it.

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redball 2 posted this 08 November 2010

I use almost the same method to find the overall length of a cartridge and a approate bullet except you only need a quarter inch dowel at lest 30 inches long and a sharpened pencil. close the bolt and insert the dowel in the barrel from the muzzle until it is hard against the bolt with the sharp pencil mark the dowel at the face of the barrel. remove the bolt and insert a bullet as far into the chamber of the rifle. put the dowel in the barrel again until it is against the bullet. mark it. the difference between these lines is the approate overall length.

Jim Wilcox

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Ed Harris posted this 08 November 2010

George you have somehow evoked Loki and angered the forest trolls. You must clean your rifle with poisonous venom and make an offering of fire lit from the vile droppings to Odin to purify it.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DAMRON G posted this 07 November 2010

I had my load of 12.0 of Unique with the NEI 72 Harris bullet go haywire today.Last weekend it shot 2” to 2-1/2” groups at 100 in a 91-30 with good,but not perfect bore.Today with the same load,same lot of ammo it shot 6"-8” groups!Bore looked fine,go figure???

George

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tturner53 posted this 07 November 2010

The Finns and the 7.62x54 have been used to win many matches.

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nimrod posted this 07 November 2010

Glad to see this thread going again, I've got me a new Mosin a 39 Finn much better than the old Russian beater ditch rifle that I started with. I've had the best luck with the Saeco 315 and 2400 although several other combinations have worked well. Right now just going through some molds that I have to see what shows promise and what doesn't. Probably going to be a LBT mold made just for it as soon as I figure out what I need.

Richard Missourians for Mosins

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Vassal posted this 07 November 2010

I ordered a bag of lapua brass awhile back, I haven't been working with cast much lately (I have been waylayed with a nightmare 6.5BPC/ Grendel project ) BUT I have been able to see NO difference ON THE TaRGETS. I love my Baltic Brass (PPU) It is accurate if I do everything else right. I suppose it is probably worth it theoretically but my PPU shoots pretty good AND I have yet to decommision ANY of it Including some which has been used for jacketed loads many (read about 13+) times.  Considering the fact that Lapua is TWICE the price,,,, umm,,well,,? 

In fact I loaded some “playin' around” PB loads in Serbian brass for today- (while I do yet MORE testing trying to figure out the BPC)

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DAMRON G posted this 06 November 2010

chasw wrote:  Brass is Lapua, very sturdy stuff. - CW


  I've got 25+ firings so far on my WW (European import) brass and have been pretty happy with it.Lapua is pretty nice stuff,how is it holding up?I might have to break down and order 200 or so.

George

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chasw posted this 06 November 2010

Vassal: I have embarked on a similar mission to help my 4 Mosin rifles be all they can be, with cast bullets of course. As usual, these rifles have very generous throats and bores. The number one rifle, a near new Polish M44, mikes out at .315” groove diameter. As you would expect, .311” Sierra ProHunters, among the best jacketed choices, are at a disadvantage.

The best advice I've heard from other cast bullet shooters is, size your bullet to the largest diameter that will chamber without binding. It turns out the limiting factor is the inside diameter of the neck portion of the chamber. For my rifles, this means size to .314", regardless of throat and groove dimensions. So far the results are promising with Lyman 314299 pills, but I have a custom LBT mold on the way that should be the ne plus ultra for my 4 pet rifles.

As for loads, I find the sweet spot is with 27 grains of Reloder 7, 1.5gr of dacron and Fed 210M primers under the aforementioned Lyman 208 grainer. Brass is Lapua, very sturdy stuff. - CW


Fortune favors the bold - so said Pliny the Elder on his last day as he sailed under the volcano at Herculaneum in AD 79

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Vassal posted this 20 September 2010

PS.

I got mu forst bag of Lapua Brass in this caliber a couple of weeks ago. I noticed that it seemed to have the shoulder set slightly different than the PPU/NNY brass. Once fireformed thats no issue BUT the enduring issue is capacity. The Lapua brass holds (if I remember right) about 2grains less than the PPU!  WHAT! that means new loads for full-power.  I am also much less enthused about the advantage such pricey (2X the cost!) brass offers. It will save me some prep and sorting but it has yet to be proven if I get any appreciable advantage. I should have known, since I have (on occasion) gotten such good results with the PPU brass.

I also picked up another FL sizer for this caliber. The relevance here is that it sizes the base (near the head/web) almost .002” more than the old one! I have yet to check any of the concentricity BUT I am suprised that there is that much varience in sizers. Both are RCBS. Oh well I didn't really need the sizer anyway. I just ordered it as a set 'cuz the seater was almost as much by itself.

Thanks for keeping me motivated and focused. I fell the need to post some good groups and keep up (at least try) with Castmaster G!

I might be getting distracted though, as I talked to my G-smith (I finally found one!) and my Savage should be done this week! Next time I see her she'll be wearing a 29” HART #7 chambered in 6.5 BPC! (AKA GRENDEL) I suppose thats a different thread though.

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Vassal posted this 20 September 2010

nice shooting!

I really need to get back to work with the MOsins. I havent been shooting them since I realized I wasn't going to make the Regionals. (I did shoot about twenty rounds the day of the regionals - The performance was less than stellar so I won't mention it)

Great posts also.  Thanks for the info.

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DAMRON G posted this 19 September 2010

The rifle doesn't always shoot that well,but i'll take it!.There are 60 shots on the big paper so you can see what it does longer term.A couple of the 5 shot groups are 1".I have two other non scoped Russian Mosins with good bores that shoot too.I am thinking if a 91-30 has a good bore and crown it will shoot very well.

Here are two with one 91-30 @ 100 with issue sights and it about average for it and the other i have.(i may have posted this group before i cant remember)

George

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raytear posted this 19 September 2010

George,

Great group! Actually, 2 great groups. Do you have such strokes of luck very frequently with that rifle?

RT

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DAMRON G posted this 19 September 2010

the lucky 10 shot groups

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DAMRON G posted this 19 September 2010

Today i shot “Joe's load” AKA Argie1891 on this site. I used it with the NEI #72 Harris Bullet in my 7.62 x 45 Russian 91-30 w 15X scope.Joe's load is 12.0 of Unique in anything that holds a  bullet over 7mm and holds more than the 30-30.Also shot 14.0 of TrailBoss and an LBT 200 Loverin i had made up.I had one LBT that had a band collapse when i sized it.I marked it and shot it in one group.It went about 2” out,not as bad as i had thought.The two ten shot groups with Unique and the NEI were 1-5/8” and 1-1/4” and the best the rifle has done.

Unique is cheaper to shoot and appears as accurate as TB,i may go back to Unique.

All at 100 yards of course.

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Vassal posted this 23 August 2010

Good Shooting. I can se it will be difficult to catch up with Castmaster G. Since you have already modified the scope you might consider ordering a set of pillars from ROCK SOLID and putting some acraglass in there. might become a LASER.

I haven't been shooting much for the past week or so. I'm a bit heartbroken as I realised that the ONE DAY out of the whole year that I am obligated to something that can't be changed has aligned itself with the day of the regionals in KC. I have been getting ready to shoot a CBA match for nearly two years!:vio: I guess at least when next year comes around I'll be ready to go.

I just placed a monster order with Powder valley including some russian primers and plenty of powder including 5744 and Tboss. I'll be posting here soon with some groups of my own,,,I hope.

By the way I also ordered some berdan primers, I hope they fit the big Russian, if not I'll just use them for AK brass.

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