Leading in Ruger SBH

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  • Last Post 24 November 2009
Catfish Bob posted this 28 August 2009

Recenty purschased new Ruger Super Blackhawk and was using 240 gr. SWC over 6.8 grs. Unique and observed leading predominately within the first 1/2 to 1 inch on the left hand side of the barrel.  Also tried just 6.3 grs of Unique and that didn't help.  Any ideas?

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docbob posted this 28 August 2009

Just wondering....what's the size of your bullets. I size mine .430 and like to shoot 8.5 grs of Unique behind either the Lyman 429421 or the RCBS 245 gr swc in my old model SBH. 6.3 to 6.8 seems pretty light.

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tturner53 posted this 28 August 2009

Catfish, this has been addressed pretty good in a thread called “Super Blackhawk Blues". Search that and you'll get a lot of answers. I've had trouble with my SBH too. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

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Catfish Bob posted this 29 August 2009

As near as I can tell they are running .431/.432    I was using that load as a starting point, trying to get about 900 fps.   It originated from infomation found in Alliant Powder's Reloader Guide.  This is a new experiance for me w/.44s, all previous was with .38/.357

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Catfish Bob posted this 29 August 2009

Will check out previous thread.  Thanks for the tip.  Knew this problem had to occur previously to someone.  Thanks again.

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Clod Hopper posted this 21 November 2009

Try upping the velocity. Your bullets sound like they are under sized. More pressure may “bump” them up to fit better. Will the bullets just barely push through the throats? If so, thats good. If they drop though, forget it for accuracy. Over size is okay if it will chamber.

Dale M. Lock

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giorgio de galleani posted this 21 November 2009

I once had a Ruger Blackhawk, with Bisley grips.Caliber 45LC

Sturdy ,well made gun.Sold it because the rear of the trigger guard hurted my strong hand middle finger during recoil.

It leaded the first third of the bore,and the forcing cone with any load.

The cylinder throats were too small,I opened them  up with a reamer from Brownells,and solved the problem.

Presently I have a New Vaquero,45lc,5 1/2 barrel,With correct diameters in all the available holes.

It is a joy to shoot with 45 Schofield brass and loads.Favourite bullet the 200 grain tumble lube by Lee.

For pin shooting I use a comp 45auto 911,and a S&W 45AR  5 incher Mod 625 coupled with a 357 mod 27 with6 1/2 barrel.

I have on all my S&W revolvers a set of Pachmayr round butt grips,in my hands they do make a difference in controlling recoil and having better shooting.

 

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jhrosier posted this 21 November 2009

I went through something like that recently with the Lee 240 gr tumble lube bullet. It leaded terribly at anything over .44 Special velocities. I had a bunch of them cast and finally used them up with a full load of Trailboss for velocities less than 900 fps.

I changed to a Lyman 240 gr RNFP BB design and the leading went away instantly. Both were close to .430 dia but the Lyman might have been a shade smaller. The Lee 310 gr bullets also shoot well with a full load of H110 and don't lead at all.

I cast my bullets with about 4% antimony and 4% tin, and then water drop them for extra hardness. They are impossible to scratch with a fingernail. I use Lars' Carnauba Red lube on all of my cast bullets with excellent results.

Jack

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Clod Hopper posted this 22 November 2009

I forgot to add that your throats may be undersize and downisizing your bullets too. If a .430 bullet can't be pushed through, have a gunsmith check it. Three of my .45 Colt Rugers were all too small and had to be reamed.

Dale M. Lock

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Catfish Bob posted this 23 November 2009

I think the fit of the bullets to the throat is about right, someone correct me if i'm wrong.  The bullets will NOT drop through but with a firm push I can make them go through.  

A friend of mine used an inside micrometer on the throats and they measured between .4305 and .4315.

I have shot cast bullets for the last 20 years or so.  I very seldom if ever shoot jacketed bullets in handguns when I have a choice but I also have a confession to make, I have never cast my own.  Shame on me, I know.  These are commercial cast bullets from a supplier in the northwest.  I have also tried a similar bullet from a source in state which has always given dependable service.   It seems better but not as good as I'd like.

I've smoothed and polished the bore with Brownell's JB cleaning compound and bore bright.   This has seemed to help also with less leading and certainly easier cleanup.

I've experimented with some powders and it appears that a slower burning powder may help also.  In regards to leading in this particular revolver, HP38 is the worst, followed by Unique.  H4227 isn't too bad but leaves some powder residue.  I'm trying 2400 next, perhaps with a heavier crimp than used on the H4227.

:dude:

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corerf posted this 23 November 2009

Catfish, the question is the differential of throat to barrel dimensions. If the throat is too small yes the bullet will friction fit as is commonly spoken of. But it gets sized in the throat at firing to the throat dimension, which may be as small as the bore. So there is no secondary sizing as the bullet enters the bore. There “should” be two sizing events that occur for there to be a quality fit. Others have mentioned the throats needed to be opened up, this is due to undersized throats, not oversized bore. Once first sizing occurs, there needs to be .001+ in secondary sizing at barrel for the theoretical proper fit. You may have small throats. You are sizing once, when bullet hits bore, it bounces down the barrel as it is NOW a small bullet, fit the throat but is loose in bore. A squeeze, then another squeeze. Theres a forcing cone at work in there too and 6 diff. throats. You indicated a .001 diff between throats. I would guess that if you isolated the largest throat, the leading would be mitigated to SOME EXTENT by only using that throat for a # of rounds. Of course that is conjecture but founded in some fact. It would not be a fix, just a verification of ailment.

Hope that helps some.

Also the slower powders will “typically” assist in the fix for poor bullet fit, but I can't give a solid reason. Leading will be less, velocities higher for obvious reasons. There will be more unburnt powder, that is how pistols consume 4227 especially with lighter bullets. 300gr bullets, same crimp, less powder waste. 180 gr bullets, same crimp, flame thrower events occur. I doubt the change from 2400 to 4227 will render any additional help. Going from bulleye to 4227, thats when you see the biggest improvement.

I have had the same problem with my Dan Wesson 357 ma 8 inch. I have NOT opened the throats. Thats coming and it WILL fix my gun. Slower powder makes it better, might as well push the bullet hard, that helps too and will typically render better accuracy with the conditions at hand. You'll lead the same amount, maybe a tad less. Don't use LLA, use a stick lube. My bullets fit tight, like I have to push them in to get the round to chamber at times. Not hammer them but push with my thumb. That will be fixed too with the rethroating for all 6 pipes. My ruger sp101 has an even smaller throating of all 5 pipes. Bullets that fit in DW, I couldn't hammer them in the Ruger. Seems like a RUGER problem as others have indicated. BUT my sp101 was designed to shoot 125 gr JHP's very fast to destroy human organs at close range so I don't bother to fix the Ruger. It is not meant to consume large amount of PB without a raincoat.

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Catfish Bob posted this 24 November 2009

Thanks, will take that into consideration.  As I understand it, you are saying that there should be two “sizing events", the first at the throat in the cylinder and the second in the barrel.  If the throats are smaller than the bore, it would nullify any sizing by the bore. 

Makes sense,  guess I'll need to slug the bore and find out where it's at.

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