Range Shooting

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  • Last Post 11 August 2009
CB posted this 08 August 2009

Seems there needs to be a Range Shooting Area in CBA ot maybe I haven't seen it yet. I was at the Angeles Range yesterday shooting my 6x45 and 6 PPC. I go on Fridays to avoid the weekend crowd. I have shot this Range as a secondary practice range since 1995. Since our NBRSA range will be built there next year I keep in close contact with Ron the Range Operator.

For the 6x45 I had planned on loading 245496 bullets with 4198. I picked out a Jones measure for the 4198 and my Bruno for the H322. As it turned out the Jones never made it to the range. I knew that 4198 would bridge in my Bruno so I changed plans. I used 4895 in both. I had no 4895 load for my 6x45 with cast. For jacketed I would just fill the case into the neck and shoot but fairly. New to the 6x45 gun  I backed my Jones off 5 numbers. Decent velocity but the lack of accuracy became apparent after the first 3 shots. Cleaned the barrel several times but I can see the fat man is laughing at this shooting. The thing different about Angeles Range yesterday was that it blew 7-9 mph and 1-2 mph. The mirage on my mirage paper ran hard and sometimes flipped 180 deg as I was pulling the trigger. The gun and barrel are nice a Varmint barrel 722 in 6x45. The trigger is still at 40oz. I squeeze and squeeze the trigger and sometimes my face would lay on the bench as I was frustrated I couldn't control the trigger better. I have 5 Rem 2 oz triggers I will try one. First though as I pulled barreled action out I noticed one side of the trigger housing was against the stock. There is room to relieve this and I will try the same trigger again. My shooting was at 100 yd. the gun will shoot better on another day. Next time I will load at home. I will be loading with 4198 loading 85 grn 245496 bullets sized .243. The Lyman seater die was leaving a seating ring on the ogive, too much neck tension and a soft bullet. I fixed this by changing seating dies using a larger diameter seating punch. I have the same bullet weighing 74 grn in lino I will try these also.

To not waste my day I also am getting my 6 PPC HV ready for Visalia next month. The wind increased in the afternoon which is fine I was testing my shooting not the gun. My last group was a .175.

The point of all this is you can reach your goals in shooting whether with cast or jacketed by solving all the little problems either with loading, cleaning, wind and mirage reading, and the shooting technique problems you bring to the shooting bench.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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CB posted this 08 August 2009

Don't know what you mean by Range Shooting Area of CBA.

How many shot and what kind of groups were you shooting with the 6x45? Did you chronograph them? Did you have to clean because of leading? Who's barrel is on the gun? Might be better going with a .244 or .245 sizer to start off.

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CB posted this 08 August 2009

Pat

It would be nice to see what guys are doing with their practice days . A seperate page to me would get more Posting on practice days.

As far as the gun and range results I will Post on this when I get a handle on the 6x45. I am going to shoot the same bullet in my 788 with Hart barrel. Canjar set trigger much lighter. The gun with jacketed has agg'd .250 at 100yd using backers. Want to work on my rest too. The Angeles Range is a steady what I call 4 % grade uphill. My cast rest used to less grade was at the top of the Post not stable. I had a short and tall Protector rear bag tried both and ended up using 3 aluminum disks under the back bag. My rest has 2 1/2 ” feet and they were at the top also. Am going to use a 3/4” slab of wood to set my rear bag on. With my Hart rest no problem since I have the center riser.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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CB posted this 08 August 2009

Don't take this the wrong way but if you don't mind me offering a little friendly advice forget about the bags, rests, powder measures, ranges, triggers, and all the other stuff you're playing with and go back and do a search on this forum about how to fit the bullet to the gun. All that other stuff is extremely important once you get the gun and load set up right but until then they might be looking for an answer in the wrong place.

I don't really know where you want to go with your cast bullet shooting but seeing where you're using custom barrels in jacketed BR chamberings I would think you're looking for at least pretty decent results. While there are quite a few similarities between jacketed and cast bullets there's also things with cast you have to look for that don't apply to jacketed. A few things I'd recommend right off the bat is to lose the .243 sizer and go .244 or .245, stick with harder alloys or use HTed WW, know your twist and use Greenhill to find a bullet that's close to what it suggests, don't try pushing it too hard, and finally use a powder that's been been proven to work well in the case with jacketed. But most importantly right now is go back and read everything you can about fitting a bullet.

If you don't post your current results and what your load and bullet preparation was it does make it a little difficult for people that might have some suggestions to offer them. There's no shame in not having great results the first time out or in my case the 20th time out but we'll just keep trying.

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CB posted this 08 August 2009

Pat

I stated earlier I felt getting great results with rifle Cast would be far more difficult than what I do in jacketed shooting if I can get great results. Not going to nr disappointed no matter what happens. The rest and bags are so that I can shoot comfortable on a steep range range. The .243 sizing die was a first choice I will try a .244 and .245. I will also use my own Cast along with the given bullets. The bullet fitting articles I will look for. Thanks for the help see what happens.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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mrbill2 posted this 08 August 2009

Perhaps some lessons in rock throwing at 100 yds might be of some help ????

mrbill2

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CB posted this 08 August 2009

You stand at 50 and I'll bury where you stand with a rock billy boy.:fire Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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Paul Pollard posted this 08 August 2009

What is the length of the Lyman 245496? I have a Lyman mould 245497 which is similar in shape. It is .905 long without the gas check. The RCBS 243-095 measures about the same length. I haven't shot the Lyman yet. The RCBS would not stabilize in the .244 Rem with 1-12 twist. It did stabilize in the 6mm Rem with the 1-9 twist. What twist is yours?

Your .243 sizer die for a custom chamber is probably ok; but it doesn't hurt to try different ones.

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CB posted this 08 August 2009

Paul

My 245496 as cast measure .790 and weigh 83 grn before lube and gas check. I have 3 rifles in 6mm that I want to cast in. The first a 6x45 12” twist, second a 6x47 14” twist, and a 6 Rem 10” twist. I expect the 6x47 to the best given its ability to shoot ,25 agg with jacketed. Maybe be wrong on the performance of the 3.

Up until a year ago most of my rifle cast experience has been with 22 & 30 cal, some 47 years of casting and shooting. But since 1993 NBRSA shooting has taken most of my shooting money and time.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

 

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billwnr posted this 09 August 2009

pat i. wrote: Don't take this the wrong way but if you don't mind me offering a little friendly advice forget about the bags, rests, powder measures, ranges, triggers, and all the other stuff you're playing with and go back and do a search on this forum about how to fit the bullet to the gun. All that other stuff is extremely important once you get the gun and load set up right but until then they might be looking for an answer in the wrong place.

I don't really know where you want to go with your cast bullet shooting but seeing where you're using custom barrels in jacketed BR chamberings I would think you're looking for at least pretty decent results. While there are quite a few similarities between jacketed and cast bullets there's also things with cast you have to look for that don't apply to jacketed. A few things I'd recommend right off the bat is to lose the .243 sizer and go .244 or .245, stick with harder alloys or use HTed WW, know your twist and use Greenhill to find a bullet that's close to what it suggests, don't try pushing it too hard, and finally use a powder that's been been proven to work well in the case with jacketed. But most importantly right now is go back and read everything you can about fitting a bullet.

If you don't post your current results and what your load and bullet preparation was it does make it a little difficult for people that might have some suggestions to offer them. There's no shame in not having great results the first time out or in my case the 20th time out but we'll just keep trying.

Stephen,

Pat's echoing just about what I posted a week ago when I stated where your problems were going to occur.  Bullet's too soft and too small, twist is too slow and the powder isn't optimized for the load.

Set triggers went out in the 60's as they add a little extra bounce to the harmonics when the rifle is shot.

For dies you might try a jacketed bullet bench rest trick  the cba shooters picked up.  We use sizer dies that take bushings (wow) to size the case as little as necessary.  It negates the need for an “M” die.   I switched in 2006 and haven't used an “M” die since.

 

 

 

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CB posted this 09 August 2009

Thanks Bill

If you are the same Bill Warner I remember from Harvey Miller days we have something in common, the BR game. I'm still at it after Harvey passed. Harvey and I picked you up one day back in 1977 on the way to Richmond. Harvey said you were green but you we're a shooting customer of his that had the same problem all young shooters had. That being keeping in the BR game while keeping his wife happy. Should have been a PM here on my part.

I will pursue the bushing die part like we do for jacketed BR sizing I could have my smith open my Hornady sizing die up to accept Wilson bushings, matter of fact one of my BR smiths lives not far from me. George Raymond lives 2 miles from me. Gene DeLoney has moved to Arizona he's my other smith. Soon in the this millenium  I will have my lathe up to snuff and running and will do my own work, Logan lathe like Harvey's.

As far as twist I have a Hart 1-14 that I be using. I thought I saw a RCBS 70 grn mold once in 6mm maybe not made any more. You remember the the 6x47 with 70 grn bullets that's what I want for my 6mm cast gun. If you are the Bill I think you are Jerry & Helen Thornbrugh say hi and so does Dennis Thornberry.

Thanks for the info on Cast.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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CB posted this 09 August 2009

Stephen Perry wrote: Harvey said you were green but you we're a shooting customer of his that had the same problem all young shooters had. Steven you certainly have a way with words................. and names. ;)

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billwnr posted this 10 August 2009

Nope. I'm a different Bill Warner. So far I only shoot cast bullets but I do have a BAT that came with a 6PPC barrel. Right now it's a .30BR with the rim turned down to PPC.

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CB posted this 11 August 2009

Bill

You have nice gun for cast or jacketed. Sounds to me like the 30 BR has a long track record besides the being impressive Score gun in IBS. Might see your NW bunch at the Sept BR Shoot at Visalia.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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