Best rifle for Military matches?

  • 11K Views
  • Last Post 01 February 2010
Vassal posted this 10 July 2009

Hello, I have been shooting and reloading and casting for a few months now---I Love It! As I am going to be purchasing a new rifle and corrolary equipment in a few weeks, and I hope to practice, join CBA and then take part in matches (postal first then maybe a trip to Illinois) I want to know what you think the best rifles for this purpose are. I really want to research this buy and get something great instead of what happens to be on the shelf in front of me (which is usually great also but,,,) I am not rich, and by “all considered” i mean to include availibility of rifles, parts and brass, selection of bullets and molds, PRICE, et cetera. Thanks guys.

                                                                                    Vassal-of-One

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Clod Hopper posted this 01 February 2010

I want to go with the target knobs for now. Will call brownells tomorrow and see what they recommend. Now I are edumacated enuf to ask a dum question at least.

Thank you all!

Dale M. Lock

Attached Files

raytear posted this 01 February 2010

The bases for the Williams sights I have used are the same hole spacing as the Lyman and Redfield.

Williams has several versions, with varying prices. The better Williams have screw adjustments for both windage and elevation. On the entry level sight, the windage adjustment has 2 lock screws holding a sliding piece into which the aperture screws. Loosen the screws and move the slider from side to side.

The Williams are aluminum with a black finish that may be anodizing of some sort. I have a couple of these with all screw adjustments. They are not rugged enough for battle sights, but for target shooting, serious plinking, and hunting they are more than adequate. With the right front sight, they give a sight picture about like an M-1 or M-14.

Attached Files

JetMech posted this 01 February 2010

I spent alot of time shopping and bought a Lyman 48S long slide for $100. A week later, a couple guys sent me messages that they had the old Redfields, which are from the same era and work just as well, for $40, minus target knobs. You can get the target knobs for $10.

Attached Files

Clod Hopper posted this 31 January 2010

Redfields are cheaper? I thought (My mistake) they were more expensive and no longer made. I was leaning towards the Lyman that is about $80-$90 at Brownells.

Dale M. Lock

Attached Files

JetMech posted this 31 January 2010

Lyman and Redfield used the same spacing @ 0.625 center to center. Mine's threaded 6X48. Redfield is a fine sight and about 1/2 to 1/4 the price of a Lyman. I'm not sure about the Williams sights.

Attached Files

Clod Hopper posted this 31 January 2010

Based on this thread, I just bought a Remington 1903. (Yes, A 1903, not the 3A.) It has a Lyman or Williams target front sight with a circle inside. The regular rear in front of the bolt is gone, but I plan to replace it and the front at some point with the proper parts. Otherwise, it appears issue. It is drilled and tapped for a Lyman or Williams target rear on the right side behind the bolt. How do I tell if its a Lyman or Williams? Does it make a difference? Are they the same configuration for size and distance between holes? If so, which target rear sight should I buy? I understand the new ones are aluminum and no longer made of steel. Should I get a steel one? For now, I just intend to shoot it with target sights (and cast bullets, of course).

I went with the 1903, because our firing squad has all 1903's, and I fell in love with them (The 1903's, not the firing squad). I keep their rifles working for shooting blanks. Thus I have a cache of 1903 parts, especially sears, strikers, and safeties. Cold hands and worn sears do not mix at a funeral.

I know my terminology is not all correct. I am too lazy and too old to look it all up.

Dale M. Lock

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 18 October 2009

Great  Post, there, Vassal (g).

I love a good conversation,  and this thread is throwing off sparks like a stick of titanium held against a grindstone (g)......

Hope we all are only temporarily blinded by the light show ...

... as the Borg mentioned, ” resistance is futile    ” ....   after all, Kharma is self-leveling...

regards, ken campbell, Iowa

Attached Files

Vassal posted this 16 October 2009

Man oh Man, Man oh man, Man oh man.,,,,,,,

  I wish this had not happened.

I have said many times that I appreciate a TREMENDOUS amount The PRICELESS advice and information that I recieve from all those who post. I have benefited greatly from posts written by Mighty Ed. (So much so that I have chosen to affix a casual title of respect to his name) I personally DO understand that using anothers data is NOT a good idea (i.e. one should contemplate, research, perhaps reduce&work-up et cetera.) I also believe that along with reminders to safely handload, specific data IS IMPORTANT. Without specific data, learning from each other would be even more difficult than it already is.

The “etiquitte” that has developed for discussion about handloading is a good one, AND i think ADEQUATE for safety. There is no way to make this entirely safe. That being said, I DO understand the concern that some have about giving load data on the higher end of things.

Specifically, this situation, HAS resolved itself perfectly and safely. I saw a load, I asked about the load, I recieved advice and discusion. I also learned by asking about that load and had it not been there I would NEVER have questioned my understanding of high velocity Cast loads.

Mighty Ed was not suggesting that others use his load, but rather describing his experiences in a detailed way that allows his fellows to understand and learn. I don't have any idea what velocity that produces (unless he said it) and I have no intention on trying to produce it. But some day I may decide that I would like a similiar load, At that point I'll develop one for my guns using what I have learned from Ed, Stephen, Duane and MANY others.

Stephen's notions and concerns are not baseless either. (as stated I don't share them exactly but,)  His appraoch does seem to be. There are communication cues lacking on-line that make this a different sort of conversing, (sometimes I just aske a question that I essentially know the answer to because I need more information and explaining EXACTLY what I know and don't know, simply takes too many words - people wouldn't want to read it And I don't want to type it.) It may lead people to believe that I know less than I actually do. It can lead to misinterpretations of comments in other ways also; some jokes won't work very well here. In these circumstances, all name calling is beyond the bounds of polite decency and can not be tolerated. Perhaps even Mighty Ed is wrong, maybe he doesn't like it or think it is taking him too lightly; the fact is I don't know. Of course sometimes people aren't innocent or joking. 

There WILL be disagreements among so many individual-minded people, but they must be parsed with respect and decency. Most are pretty good about doing that. I hope that all involved here will continue to offer help and specific accounts of what they have done, so that I, and others, can learn from it and engage in a dangerous hobby, safely.

Perhaps sharing specific data is not the safest thing to do. I think that in MOST instances (even stout loads) it makes things MORE SAFE, but I could be wrong.

I can understand and respect both sides.

Attached Files

JetMech posted this 14 October 2009

I got news for ya, buddy. You ain't General McAuliffe, this isn't Bastogne, and you don't have the 101st Airborne behind ya.

Attached Files

CB posted this 13 October 2009

NUTS.

Attached Files

JetMech posted this 13 October 2009

:offtopic:Stephen Perry wrote: ED

You shouldn't be giving out load recommendations to guys buying new guns. Your 760 load is over book and your 4831 is questionable given the variations of H and IMR loads. Primer variations could add as much 10 % to your data. I know you try and help but sometimes your logic is twisted. Besides that have a good day.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire With all due respect, “The way we found out what caliber it was the kid the gunsmith checked all the mid size 6mm ammo he had in the shop after getting a rough headspace we took the gun to Arizona on a quail hunt. We shot the rifle several times on the way back and measured the cases when we got back to the shop.” Sound familiar? It should. You said it and it has to be about the most dangerous thing I've ever seen written on this, or any other forum with regards to determining what a rifle is chambered for. Talk about twisted logic. It's true that sometimes, we forget that not everyone on this forum is as knowledgeable as we believe. Hell, there was even a guy who seemed to think that gas check design would be influenced by leade angle. Goes to show, ya never can tell.

BTW, the CBA has this standard disclaimer that the cognizant handloader should already be aware of:

"The following are examples of the types of material which reflect only the experiences of the individual and do not imply the endorsement or recommendation by The Cast Bullet Association.

<>Any loading data published on this web site. <>Any loading practices published on this web site. <>Machining operations. <>Advertisements. <*>Mention of ANY product or service. While these activities are normally practiced without risk of injury, proper training in these practices is recommended before beginning the activity.

All such information should be used with the understanding that the user assumes ALL risk and responsibility for damages or injury which might result from the use of such information."

While Ed's load recommendations may not be in your books, they clearly work in HIS rifle, as he stated.

As a CBA member, I would ask that you refrain from personal attacks, especially against another member who's life time of work has contributed vastly to this organization and the shooting community as a whole. That also goes for Veral Smith, another incredible asset we are fortunate to have with us.

Oh, I forgot. Have a nice day.

Attached Files

CB posted this 12 October 2009

Jeff

That's obvious about Ed's load info. But you know as well as other Comp shooters there are different grades of the same military guns and different equivalecies in military cases. Not mention differences in powders lot to lot and primers lot to lot.

Some of the newer Casters live and hopefully not die on the veterans info on loading for Cast. I obviously am not one of those. I said before I only talk Unique powder in Cast and then on the minimum side. Thank God Ed is not a small rifle caliber officianado hate to see what he would display there.

I think the Comp guys in Cast should discuss what powder what lot and what primer that's it. I ain't looking to be right or wrong here I am right.

Fry me Die me whatever you want to do with me. I would say it worse about presented un-published Comp loads the second time around. I have my own Comp loads with N 133 and H322 but they are mine for my eyes only.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

 

 

Attached Files

CB posted this 12 October 2009

Stephen The load Ed wes referring to is still used today by a couple of the high power shooters at my club. Of course as with any of the load information here is it use at your own peril. I have a load for my 06 that is 50 grs of 4064 behind a 168gr bullet that is a target cleaner at 600. No it is not published, but there are many that use that load at Camp Perry to win all of the time. I dont recommend that one rushes right out and use this load, it is equipment dependent. Besides, I dont think Ed was giving load advice, I think he was making a statement as to what he had done.

Attached Files

CB posted this 12 October 2009

ED

You shouldn't be giving out load recommendations to guys buying new guns. Your 760 load is over book and your 4831 is questionable given the variations of H and IMR loads. Primer variations could add as much 10 % to your data. I know you try and help but sometimes your logic is twisted. Besides that have a good day.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

Attached Files

billwnr posted this 11 October 2009

The RCBS 180-SP does good in the K31's and will do as good in the wind as any other bullet.

Attached Files

CB posted this 11 October 2009

Robert

If you have a smith with a throating reamer have him cut the lands forward where you want them. If you want to change the leade he can do that too.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

Attached Files

CB posted this 11 October 2009

Ed

None of your opinions are humble wrote for a purpose. Just a displaced Farmer John in green jeans.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

 

Attached Files

CB posted this 11 October 2009

Jeff

Talking to my Cast mentor if there is such a thing, maybe I'm mentoring him at the same time. I've known and shot benchrest with Bob for 15 years. He lives in Arizona in Mesa, goes to all the gunshows and scavenges and sells brass in the hills. Bob has casted since 1975 so I have a couple years on him. Right now he has a new Krieger barrel 1-12 twist in 7.62x39 on one of his XP 100 BR guns. He has several Cast molds he works with in 30 swears he going to go up to a .314 truncated bullet we'll see. Bob's favorite 30 cal mold is a 31141 but he feels it is too much of a bullet for what he's doing here. He wants to go to a 130 grn cast to get more bullet speed. He's probably right. Bob is in  Ed's class in load development but has no interest or time for computer gymnastics.

Bob advised me to salt the two new 2 groove 03A3 barrels my other Cast buddy has away. Finding a good 03A3 will be no problem he sees them all the time at the shows. If he finds one we'll make a trade. Probably trade one or two of my old Hart BR barrels for the Springfield, I have plenty old BR barrels. He could chamber for 6mm Cast. Like I always say barrels never wear out shooters wear out. I have a smith in California and one in Arizona that can take care of any projects Bob and I come up with. Oh by the way Jeff I finally got me a RCBS 8mm 170 FP mold, I have three Mausers that will get the treament.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

Attached Files

Bob S posted this 11 October 2009

Ed Harris wrote: I used to shoot it with cast in regular NRA highpower matches back to 600 yards, suppose I should dust it off and try it in the postals in mil-Modified.

Ed:

Where around here were you able to shoot full-distance NMC or Regional Course with cal. .30 cast bullets? 

I was considering shooting my heavy 03A3 at Quantico when Dave Willis was CO, WTB, but it was NO WAY.  He was concerned about the plunging trajectory.  I know they shoot BPCR there now, so maybe this is not an issue anymore?

 

Resp'y,

Bob S.

P.S.  How long is the waiting list at FFRGC now?

 

 

Attached Files

cityboy posted this 10 October 2009

I'm not all that keen on a Mauser action. I have a 30-30 built on a small ring M98 and have had a hard time getting it to shoot well. The bolt is a sloppy fit and the receiver lugs cannot be lapped to better match the bolt lugs. The action is case hardened, so if the lugs are lapped there is always a chance of breaking through the hard case. If this happens, headspace will soon increase.

Jim

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Close