New Mould Question

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Last Post 19 May 2008

Standard Member

Calehedron posted this 28 April 2008

I have 2 Lyman 429667 4 cavity moulds. I cleaned them the same way, boiled them, and sprayed them both with the FA lube. I used one with the lube and it cast great bullets and when I read others didnt like the stuff, i brushed it out of the other and cleaned it again so that it was just plain. Now the one I cleaned the FA lube out of wont cast a single bullet without voids, wrinkles, and other imperfections. I have them on 2 sets of handles and cast them back to back. One casts perfect, the other like ass. Both are heated the same, casting about 5-6 casts before keeping any to make sure temps are up. Alloy is runnig between 700-750.

Does the one mould most likely just need more break in time? I have looked it over and I cant see anything in the cavities that would be causing big voids near the head or the bands to be distorted. Im still new to this so any suggestions woudl be welcome. I have checked all the vent lines and they appear to be clear. Maybe I should spray them down with cleaner and boil them again? At a bit of a loss here.

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CB posted this 29 April 2008

Hey Calehedron

My casting experience with this particular design does not extend to 44 caliber. When first casting the 38 caliber, I did have difficulty with wrinkles. Another new set of blocks only compounded my frustration. My friend Robert asked for both sets while I was gone on vacation. Upon returning, I went to see how he had made out. In the ten days he had the blocks, Robert had cast over fifteen thousand perfect slugs. Since I was the one who introduced him to casting, he was busting to show me how. The heat simply needed to be turned up for this design. I am an experienced bullet caster who knows it all and it isn't necessary for me to learn anything. The last sentence was the root of the problem. Turn up the heat. When the bullets have a frosty appearance, the heat is too high. Go give it a try.

Roy

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Standard Member

CB posted this 29 April 2008

There are enemies of casting quality (even though good rust preventive) that you do not want on your molds. Silicone is the worse and any spray oils containing silicone. Waxes are also an enemy, like car wax or spray on car waxes, furniture wax and cast bullet lube. No solvent will take these out of a mold.

To clean a mold, boil it in TSP (TriSodium Phosphate) which can be bought at any home supply centers in the paint section. TSP is the best and cleaningest water base cleaner I've ever used! You have to dilute it, nothing critical with maybe 2 capfuls to a 1 cup of water, boil for 10 minutes. Then boil again in clean water.

I have rebuilt many used dinged-up, rusty molds and several spray-lubed built-up really dingy used molds. After deburing and buffing up a mould, I heat it blue-hot with just a hand torch and drop it in auto-transmission fluid. This heat cleaning burns the rust and burns out any silicone or wax, and has never damaged any steel mold I've treated as such. I then simply wipe off the ATF and start casting and never have any problems.

To make a long answer short, try the TSP. If you still have something in the pores of the steel mold, try heating it to blue and dip in ATF. I know ATF is a casting friendly oil if you want to use it to guard against rust during storage. Hope this helps...................Dan

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 29 April 2008

Dan Willems wrote: ...To make a long answer short, try the TSP. If you still have something in the pores of the steel mold, try heating it to blue and dip in ATF. I know ATF is a casting friendly oil if you want to use it to guard against rust during storage.

I use Ed's Red (without the lanoilin) and a brass parts brush or 000 steel wool for cleaning rusty moulds and use an artist's brush with ER while still warm to coat my moulds for storage after casting.

Pre-heat your blocks on a hot plate and you are good to go!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Calehedron posted this 29 April 2008

I will try cleaning the mould again with the TSP this time and give it another go round. No sprays other than the FA lube were used on either mould. Maybe when I brushed it out with the brass brush I just didnt get it all out or maybe I never got all of the oil out in the first place when they were boiled.

Dont have a torch yet, but dont have the TSP either so maybe I will get both while I am at Home Depot or Lowes on the way home tonight. Its my Friday so I have the rest of the week to play in my garage. Gotta love the compressed work weeks of 3 12s one week and 4 the next. Like a mini vacation every week. Making CPUs and chipsets on front end of the weeks and bullets on the backend.. Life is good!

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runfiverun posted this 29 April 2008

i have never ever ever used a mold release agent on a mold.

i usually just clean the new molds with brake cleaner and a rag.

then heat the mold up and cast about 5-6 pours dont even look at them dump in pot

cast 5-6 more then look at what they are doing.

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CB posted this 29 April 2008

There you go again Ed you braggart, let me have a turn. :D

Yep, that Ed's Red (without the lanolin) is what I use to clean my molds too. and my rifle bore, firing bolts, firing pins, triggers, revolver cylinders, cartridge cases (outside), loading press ram, trim tool, bluing on fine rifles and shotguns (they really shine), cartridge magazines, self-loading actions, parts cleaner (nuts&bolts), pliers, channel locks, wrench ratchets, door hinges, locks, stove top cleaner, wood preservative on rakes, hoes, shovels, post-hole diggers, hammers and spades, dolly wheels, baby buggy wheels.........woooops got carried away here. I make it by the gallon and that don't last long!

ER is better than WD40. :dude:

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 30 April 2008

Also cures mange on dogs and mules, so Harley Shaw in Arizona tells me.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Calehedron posted this 30 April 2008

Thanks for all the tips and if I can ever find kerosene here in Phoenix, I will mix up a batch of Ed's Red.

I found a TSP substitute at Walmart but not the actual stuff, also bought some brake cleaner and a torch. I first sprayed them down with the brake cleaner and a ton of stuff came out of the mould. Then I soaked them in the TSP for about an hour and then brushed even more crap out of them. Rinsed real well and then boiled them in clean water for about 15 mins. I then took them out to the garage for another brushing and then heated them up with the torch. I could see little orange glows here and there as stuff burned off.

Started casting once it was cool enough to handle and got much better results this time around. Major wrinkles at the nose are gone as are most of the ones at the bands. Still have a few pock marks on one side so now I know exactly which half of the mould still needs a bit of work. Other than that I am pleased with how they filled out.

Thank you all again for the cleaning tips!

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Moderator

Veral Smith posted this 02 May 2008

While reading all the above I developed a concern that someone might buy one of my molds and go through all this cleaning hassle. Please don't do it. Just get it hot and use it!

The only thing I put on my molds while machining is animal fat. I have used chicken fat, bear fat and now wildcat fat. I have at least a couple years supply of the cat fat so will probably stick with it till I run out and go back to bear fat. - I use animal fat because I don't like the health hazards of all the chemical cutting compounds, which don't work one bit better anyhow.

By time I am done cutting the traces of animal fat left in the cavities of the mold are so minute that the smoking as it heats has no effect on casting quality. If one heats one of my new molds up well to start with, the first set of bullets poured will be perfect.

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CBA Member

giorgio de galleani posted this 02 May 2008

As soon as they arrive I'll keep your moulds away from my 5 spaniels and swear I won't tell my wife they are lubed with cat fat.

I am patiently waiting,not good to put haste on bird dogs and artists,just let them express theirselves.

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 02 May 2008

Veral,

Where are you getting the fat wildcats? What kind of critters do they eat to get fat?

I understand fat bears, but I thought the only ffat cats were in Congress 8-)

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Moderator

Veral Smith posted this 02 May 2008

The 'fat cats' of congress are actually gluttonous gruesomly obese and devoid of muscle or brains. This is only my own somewhat bitter opinion though, as I've really never seen the inside of one. Probably if any man ever did he would die of horror.

The wild cat I took the fat from was terminated by my wife at her hen house after it had killed all her laying hens. But it had only eaten one. I believe it had fattened on road killed deer still fat in the fall, and probably grouse, as there are no rabbits in this area for many miles.

Perhaps you've read of wildcat/lynx being called 'arctic chicken' by trappers and sourdoughs. -- I had to try it, and formed a very 'strong' opinion of this matter also. I believe the only people who could call it chicken are those who live in tiny cabins hanging full of stinking fur pelts. I don't quit easy though. I parboiled it twice, then boiled it till it was tender and it tasted like as fine a pork roast as I've ever eaten. Boiling for a few hours is the only way I know of to get bobcat or mountain lion tender enough that it can be chewed. Muscles of either, if sliced thin would make a fine shoe leather.

As for polecat. I'm going to have to live a lot longer before I learn anything about their fat! When I was a kid, the best gun oils were refined animal and bird fat, with clarified bird fat considered the ultimate. It is made by rendering any bird fat I presume, at low heat, then setting in a warm area to let it settle. The oil (from chicken fat) which rises to the top, remains liquid at temperatures down to about 70 deg F, and is actually a better lubricant for metal working than cat fat, but cat fat stays liquid down almost to freezing. Bear lard, or rendered fat liquifies at perhaps 100 deg F, cooler than hog lard, and is a better cutting oil than chicken, but has to be kept in a warmed cup so it can be applied with a brush. If any of these are used to lubricate firearms, they should be applied to warmed parts then wiped clean with a rag. The remaining film will stay and make parts slide freely in any weather, with minimal attraction to dirt.

Remember all these things guys, in case big oil shuts all the fine petroleum lubricants off!

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 02 May 2008

Veral Smith wrote: The wild cat I took the fat from was terminated by my wife at her hen house after it had killed all her laying hens...had fattened on road killed deer still fat in the fall...Perhaps you've read of wildcat/lynx being called 'arctic chicken' by trappers and sourdoughs...-- I had to try it...only people who could call it chicken are those who live in tiny cabins hanging full of stinking fur pelts... parboiled it twice, then boiled it till it was tender and it tasted like as fine a pork roast.... Boiling ...is the only way I know of to get bobcat or mountain lion tender enough that it can be chewed. Muscles...sliced thin would make a fine shoe leather. Veral, Ya gotta be descended from Scots-Irish! God bless you!

You're hereby declared to be an Honarary West Virginian!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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KenK posted this 02 May 2008

To my nose, skunk smells a whole lot better than synthetic water soluble coolant that has gone bad. One of the reasons I left that work, I was sick of having my hands in that crap all day.

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j35nut posted this 02 May 2008

In the SW Bobcats living on rabbits will have little fat. Bobcats living on ground squirrels, pack rats, and quail will carry some fat. For twelve years every Nov. I hung up the tool belt for ten weeks and went trapping. Most years there is so much small game that it isn't any harder for a Bobcat to get something to eat than it is for me or you to open the fridge. It's sure pretty meat, but I never was brave or hungry enough to try it on my plate. On the rare day that I made it home while it was still light I would hang up a few hindquarters for the chickens to eat, they would clean it to the bone. Good shooting

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Standard Member

CB posted this 05 May 2008

Ed,

That looks like my barnyard and my barn cats. I take a old fashion candle, the type that gives off some smpke and use that on the molds before casting, then when I am putting them away, I do the same thing.

This has been my practice for 35 or more years. Darn, when you get old, it's hard to remember how long a go this happened.

I liove about 30 minutes away from West Virgina and I do own some hunting property in the northern pan handle. WV is change their slogan at the border crossing, from Open for Business to Wet and Wild. I always thought it was “Almost Heaven".

Jerry

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Notlwonk posted this 05 May 2008

KenK wrote:

To my nose, skunk smells a whole lot better than synthetic water soluble coolant that has gone bad. One of the reasons I left that work, I was sick of having my hands in that crap all day.

You've got that right, I remember many 1st days after a 3 day shut down where the smell was truly sickening.

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CB posted this 15 May 2008

Folks,

My barn cats are taking sniper lessons, so do not bad mouth them or their family members, these guys are really serious. :D

As that I own property in the place that is Almost Heaven and is like my girl friend Wild and Wonderful, I must be a born again West Virginian.

Jerry

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 16 May 2008

miestro_jerry wrote: As that I own property in the place that is Almost Heaven and is like my girl friend Wild and Wonderful, I must be a born again West Virginian.

Yes, you are corrrect. I like your description better. "Open for business" never caught on with me.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 16 May 2008

Ed,

The only things that were open for business was the gambling and the associated ladies.

Jerry