Having just launched my first bullets since AUGUST, I'm back into the game of persuit of accuracy.
THis time it's with .223 Rem. I have a heavy barreled Ruger #1 and a handfull of moulds to play with.
I'm looking for best load/bullet combination for non-gaschecked for 100-200 yard competition; and the same for varmits using GC bullets. (Is my ASSUMPTION that the GC will be more accurate correct?)
This afternoon I'll find out what the rifle will do at 100 yds with military ball ammo.
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TRK,
The gas check is not necessarily more accurate than a PB bullet. It all depends on the MV you want to use. IMO anything over about 1500 fps and PB accuracy seems to go out the window. Using Lino bullets I have pushed them up to 1750 fps but there's no accuracy..... or at least at the level I want. If you will look at the match results in The Fouling Shot you'll see most PB bullet shooters follow this rule.
Above 1500 fps then alloys and GC's come into the fore. Of course there's nothing says you can't use softer alloys and GC's below 1500 fps either and with good accuracy to. To keep it simple I use nothing but GC bullets in my .223 no matter what MV I'm using.
PETE
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I will watch with interest for your results. I have been working with a No. 1 in .218 Bee.
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Pete -
Good to hear ya!
I take it that the ~1600fps rule then applies to .22 bore. I've never loaded much of ANYTHING in .223 as the surplus ammo has been so cheap; but I've read of a bunch of folks running the .22's up around 2100. This will be a new experience. Any preferences to bullet weights?
I took 4 .223's to the range this weekend. 100 yards. Two types of ammo - some 'factory' reloads (light loads) and some brown-box ball LC. Variety of results - best part is that I'm getting lots of brass to load cast bullet in; segregating by rifle of course. 5 shot groups ran from 0.7” to 2” depending on rifle and ammo. Will do some handloading with Sierra matchkings to further test accuracy of each rifle. (AR, Savage 110FP, CZ-527 and Ruger #3 with Douglas XX heavy bbl.
KenK - I WILL post results. Hope to do casting this week and range time on the weekend.
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TRK, I will be watching with interest as well as I just got a Savage 12 LRPV in .223 and will be trying my hand at casting for it later this summer. Which molds will you be using? I have read that the NEI 77gr mold is very good.
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That's tonight's project - round up the moulds and fire up the pot. 225415, the round nosed Lyman heavier than the 225415 (never tried it) , a Lee and (yet to get here) the short round nosed Lyman Loveren.
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That's tonight's project - round up the moulds and fire up the pot. 225415, the round nosed Lyman heavier than the 225415 (never tried it) , a Lee and (yet to get here) the short round nosed Lyman Loveren.
Hi, great to see more shooters taking on the small bores ... a tough row to hoe, as we farmers say.
Not to complicate your life, but get yourself at least one good windflag, and plant it about 50 feet in front of your rest. watch it every shot, but at first dont try to get smarter than your wind flag, just kind of remember what it was doing when you yank that trigger thing, and compare it to where your bullet went.
The common short, round nose bullets are ... astoundingly ... succeptable to varying wind forces, and it is very difficult to predict how much and in what direction the wind is going to “blow" your bullet. It is my humble opinion that round short bullets do not only get ” blown” by the wind, but also ” skid” off of the various air densities that they pass thru on the way to the target ... like a rock skipping on a pond surface ..... faster wind is less dense/less pressure .... etc. ....
The bench rest metaljacketed shooters can get by with fairly short bullets, but they beat the system by shooting at least 3000 fps or so ...
The price of lead last time I bot has me thinking I need to start a new cast bullet career shooting mini-bores ... and since I have a bunch of benchrest quality 6 mm barrels, I think I will start there ... but am not sure their standard 14 twist is going to stabilize a long, wind-drift-busting bullet, maybe 85 or 100 grains with a conical point ... we shall see.
I note that the infamous J. Alexander, most knowledgeable of .22 shooters, is playhing with 75 grain .22 bullets now ... need to watch his results also.
Keep us posted, ken campbell, iowa
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TRK,
The 1600 fps “rule” would only apply if you are shooting alloys like 1-20 Tin/Lead. All the work I've done with the .223 has been with an alloy of 50/50 Lino/WW's. Best accuracy so far has been in the 1900-2000 fps range with an 80 gr. LBT 225 85 SP in a Savage with a 1-9” twist and the throat run out so as to keep the bullet base in the neck of the case. I've also played some with an NEI 224 72 gr. bullet.
Of course my main thrust is target shooting in the CBA Postals so what you're looking for might be different. If just for plinking and such I think I'd look at the Lyman 225415 GC. I've used this bullet in a .22 Hornet and it shoots reasonably well altho about 1 1/8” to 1 1/4” are about the best I can average with it. The above .223 in the Savage will get down under an inch with some groups running into 5/8” now and again. I really need to do a LOT more work with it.
The reason I've gone with the heavier bullets is as Ken Campbell suggests. Wind deflection! Emailing John Alexander quite a bit he talked me into going with the heavier bullets and I'm glad I did. Actually if the 1-9” twist can handle a heavier bullet I'd like to try that some day. Might be interesting to see if the heavier bullets added length would be offset due to more surface for the wind to act on. Has to be a point where this would happen I imagine.
PETE
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TRK,
My two cents worth about shooting the 22 bore is in the appendix section of Joe Brennan's book. Hope that might help a bit.
Good luck with the 223.
John
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Thanks one and all for the input. Much to think about.
Spent most of tonight depriming and de-crimping 200-300 rounds of LC.
Have lino, WW, lead and 96%tin available. Lots of options.
Thanks!
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Up to 2 quarts or so of brass deprimed de-crimped and polished so far.
Time to fire up the pot and cast a few.
So shall I try a hot or mild primer with a fast or slow powder?
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I tend to favor slow powders with whatever primer will give adequate ignition. I like them for 2 reasons...I tend to get less recoil plus it makes it harder to get a double charge
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Ken - got the wind flags. Don't use them much. (That IS to say I have access to a WELL sheltered 100 yard range.) I'll just have to learn how much to hold under which conditions.
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Got to the range a couple of times.
R#3 w/douglas XX. Can do 3/4 to 1” 5 shot groups with brown box and commercial junk reloads. I much easier doing it with my reloads. Have done 3 5-shot groups in a row. Now I know the rifle, cast is next.
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Sounds like you are out to reinvent the .22/15/60 cartridge.
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:sbox: I've got a 10” barrelled .22 Hornet in TC Contender that shoots under 1&1/2 ” groups at 100 meters using wheelweight. The best of all worlds is the Lyman 225438 mould is gas check and a Loverin design(extra lube grooves). It's tiny though. This bullet originally appeared as a 41 grain in the Cast Bullet Handbook(Lyman) and then to 44 grain later. To be honest it pours at 45.5 to 45.8 for match weight.
Rule? This little thing is running 1800 fps with 7.9 grains of IMR 4227!! And it doesn't much fail to knock down the big rams at 100 meters.
I realize that you'd probably want a heavier bullet for your .223 though but, that wasn't really my point. With more alox and a gas check placing the pressure on the bearing surfaces instead of the base-1800fps can be a minimum! no leading!
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Billwnr -
To be honest I'd never thought of blackpowder in a .223 (.22-15-60 <53>). What a concept!
hunterspistol -
The 225438 has always intregued me. I've had one for decades but this is my first excursion in USING them. It'll be a sunny calm day today. But I'm off to work in a few. Wedding later to go to this afternoon. Rain tonight and tomorrow. Hurry up and wait. :(
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TRK
I have been working on Savage 223 this summer with a 1 in 9 also. I have had more luck with heavy bullets, 55 and up.
On powder 3031 and AA #9 have both done ok with standard Winchester and Fed. Match primers. The loads are running 1850 to 2200 with very little leading. That is with GCs. You have to keep the 3031 fairly light or you will be hitting 2700 FPS before you know it. I shot a few of those with not a lot accuracy but also very litlle leading. I use an alloy very close to Lyman #2 and hardened in cold water.
I can get 2 inches or 2.5 on a 10 shot group but it is the best I can get so far. I have Veral making me a mold now. Sent him a chamber cast , throat slug and barrel slug from the rifle. I also told him to make what ever size bullet he felt good about based on what I sent. I feel there ain't no use giving instructions to a guy smarter than me and just take his advice. I will post bullet information and results when it get the mold. I did express a desire to him for a heavy bullet so we will see.
I did try the 45 gr Lyman with no success, good luck on your efforts and if the 45 shoots let me know.
Bryan
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Bryan,
Good timing. I just had my first session with .223 cast billets today. Not very successful using IMR4227 and BL C(2). I'm using BR4 primers, RCBS FN-55 with Gas checks.
I"m shooting a Savage LRPV in .223 Rem. In a few weeks I want to check out the NEI-72-GC-DD bullet. I have about 200 onhand. I will be curious to see how Veral's work.
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On my Savage Lyman's 55 gr shoots ok with RCBS GS. Have not done RCBS. LBT mold should be here in two weeks or so. Will let you know how it works out.
Bryan
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I had a chance this summer to work on three .223's for PD hunting. Now I have a baseline on each with jacketed bullets. Cast is coming.
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Bryan Austin
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fc60
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Ed Harris
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Bud Hyett
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linoww
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DanLH
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Aaron
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RicinYakima
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Wilderness
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9.3X62AL
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