"Why do manufacturers think successful cartridges should make your hand sting and ears ring?

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  • Last Post 05 October 2015
Ed Harris posted this 10 December 2007

With 87 replies and over 4300 reads, the “Popgun" thread must be a Guiness record holder in the cast bullet firearms world, but we should move it elsewhere, lest people think we are writing a book.  Who would have imagined it would be so popular?

So, I have started a new thread entitled:

"Why do manufacturers think that successful cartridges should make your hand sting and your ears ring?  Continuation of the “Pop-Gun / Bunny Gun” Thread: 

The requested parameters per Ed Harris

1) Pro or con discussion of the new .327 Federal Magnum,

2) Tales of woe or wisdom especially related to .30 Carbine revolvers

3) Other ear splitting small bore center-fires, such as the .30 Luger or .30 Mauser

4) Any other firearm, rifle, handgun, pistol, revolver, shotgun insert tube, etc. whose caliber designator first numerical digit is a “THREE” and whose second numerical digit is TWO or LESS!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 05 October 2015

Unertl 6X Small Game.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 05 October 2015

That's a darn nice rook rifle! What kind and power is the scope?

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Ed Harris posted this 03 October 2015

RicinYakima wrote: Looking forward to pictures! I may have posted the after pictures elsewhere, but wanted to dust off this thread.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 28 September 2015

Interesting that to my ear anyway (using ear plugs of course) I don't find the 30 Luger any louder than the 9mm. It would be reasonable to think the lower expansion ratio would make it louder, but if so I can't tell. I have found the 30 to be easy to get to shoot accurately, using an old time Lyman 93 grain round nose cast bullet.

Now the .32-20 - in my old 7.5” Bisley - that is a loud revolver! Really sharp crack to the report, and one needs to keep the “off” hand well clear of the cylinder to barrel gap, as unburnt powder grains come out at a speed good enough to embed in your skin. Never mind how I know that!

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Spud posted this 29 January 2014

I have an opinion on the OP. People will try to make lower powered cartridges do more than they're designed to do (+p, +p+, etc.) So they design the stingers for those who have something to shoot after they blow up (or prematurely wear out) their other guns with hot loads. Just a theory.

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Tom Acheson posted this 15 December 2013

I'm with Shadowdog on the big bores. My favorite is my 4” fixed sight S&W Model 58 in .41 Mag. 9-grains of 4756 under a H&G 220-grain KT and the fun is on!

Tom

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Shadowdog posted this 15 December 2013

As of about six months ago, I've turned my attention to cast round nose bullets in my revolvers with light accurate charges of fast burning powders. For the most part I've turned my .44 Magnum into a .44 Russian. What a pleasure they are to shoot too!

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hunterspistol posted this 27 October 2013

On the same thought, I used 1.4 grains of Bullseye in my little NEF 32 magnum. Of course, I've been using the RCBS 32-098-SWC for everything. It seemed to hit very accurately out to 50 yards but, I thought it a bit soft to shoot all the time.

 It did, however, really work.

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Shadowdog posted this 27 October 2013

At my age, I'm much happier shooting my 4” S&W 629 with Lyman 429383 round nose's at barely 700fps. The magic of the BOOM and jump of the muzzle have worn off some years ago.

A 4” blued S&W J frame in .32 S&W long with wadcutters and a wee bit of Red Dot seems right for me these days, but I just can't shake the big bores.

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51 Colt posted this 15 October 2013

I am doing a lot of experimenting with M95 Nagant loads and i was looking at my Nagant 32acp cylinder it looks like their is room for a 32 S&W case maybe a 32 S&W long case i was wondering if anyone has one each of these cases they can spare.I am willing to pay for them as well as the postage.

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Ed Harris posted this 12 October 2013

Sounds like you you are on the right track. The 1.8 sounds good for a start load deep seated the Nagant cases. If you get that one working well please work up a short article on the Nagant revolver for the Fouling Shot. If you also have the .32 ACP cyli nder for the Nagant, also would like to know how those do.

Inquiring minds want to know!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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51 Colt posted this 11 October 2013

I know this is a old post but i wanted to tell Ed that the hard cast 93gr bullets shot great from both the 32acp cases and the 32-20 cases. Your 32acp data was spot on. 3gr of Bullseye in the 32-20 cases shot fine but were not very accurate. I tried 3.5gr of Trail Boss next and it was very accurate. Last month i bought a Lee 90gr .314 TL SWC mold and have been having a lot of fun with it. I have using air cooled dental film lead and have been sizing them .314 and lubing them with 45/45/10 lube. The 32acp/ Bullseye loads shot well with this bullet same with the 32-20/Trail Boss loads. Last night i loaded a few 32-20 cases with 2gr of Bulleye and seated the bullet below the case mouth like a 7.62x38r load to try. I have all so bee loading Flocchi Nagant brass using Lee Nagant dies. I was able to full size the gas seal brass by removing the decapping pin. I start seating the bullet in the Nagant seating die as far as it will go then i swap out the seating stem (a screw) for sizing stem out of a Lee .309 sizing kit. I remove the flair and crimp using the sizing die with out the decapping pin. I loaded them with 2.7gr of unique. They shot well it felt like i was shooting a 32 auto. They shot much better than the Flocchi gas seal ammo. I want to try Bulleye in the Flocchi cases how does 1.8gr sound for a starting load. I all so tried the same 90gr bullet in my Chinese SKS with 3gr of bullseye i was able to shoot one raged hole groups at 25yd. I think it would be a good bunny load.

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hunterspistol posted this 29 May 2011

:coffee    Here's a test and review: http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SP101-327.htm>http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SP101-327.htm 

      He seems to think it'll make a good trail gun, has enough power to make it for self defense.   I've read this several times and it makes me wonder.  I have 32-20 and 32 mag in TC Contenders and one of the old NEF 32 mag revolvers.  All of them would be easy on lead and powder.

 

     My newest project, that isn't ear-splitting, is last year's re-introduced 44 Flattop Special.   This cartridge is a joy to shoot.  It would make a fine defense weapon, great trail gun, any application you can think of.  Whoever talked Ruger into bringing the 44 S&W Special back out in the New Model Blackhawk did us all a favor.  If you haven't tried this big one, you should.  It's as nice as it gets.  The dimensions seem very well fine tuned and it groups at 15 yards straight out of the box.  I never got the opportunity to even buy factory for it, probably never need it.

      My previous project was the 41 Remington Magnum.     It does make your hand sting and your ears ring, all the while traveling 100-150 yards at somewhere around 1400 fps.  It's pure, savage, magnum performance.

     Ron

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RicinYakima posted this 18 May 2011

Looking forward to pictures!

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Ed Harris posted this 18 May 2011

Thanks, good info all.

My next upcoming project is to have relined an Army & Navy Cooperative Society rook rifle, built on a Tranter patent side-lever action, relined to .32 S&W Long in .311 groove diameter with 16 inch twist.

Gun is tiny, weighs about 4-1/2 pounds, was originally a .255, but bore is poor and gun was inexpertly rechambered to .25-20 Winchester despite bore and groove dimensions and twist being wrong. Was sloppily restamped over the original engraved caliber markings, scope block holes drilled in top barrel flat and a tap broken off in one of the holes!

BUT, if the gun hadn't been so screwed up, I could not have gotten it so cheap.... So I plan on having John Taylor reline, rechamber, weld up the boo boos, restrike the barrel flats, restore the engraved markings and rust blue the barrel.

Will take some before and after picsl.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 18 May 2011

327 Federal brass is available from Freedom Arms. http://www.freedomarms.com/

We have a4” Charter Arms Patriot. This is the revolver S&W should make. Our revolver is a good gun but the sights are not finished. The rear sight notch was too small. The front sight is frosted stainless steel and is difficult to see when shooting outdoors. The fron sight would be better if it were a black pinned in blade. The sight is not serrated and this causes problems with the sun at your back.

Slim

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argie1891 posted this 17 May 2011

i havent shot with 327 ammo as i cant get brass. my 327 is a charter patriot it seems to shoot well but my ruger bisley will out shoot it. the charter is getting better the more i shoot it. i think the bore has some tool marks and i am getting them smoothed up by shooting it. sure wish i could find some 327 brass if anyone hears that they are available let me know. joe gifford

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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william iorg posted this 17 May 2011

Ed,

We certainly restricted our initial shooting with the 327 Federal due to the lack of brass. As you point out, shooting factory ammunition is an expensive way to acquire brass. My wife and I are certain the 327 Federal will make the grade as a defense handgun. We hope it will find favor with the Kitgun and varminter in time. It has taken the 32 Magnum a long time to develop the “almost mainstream following” but it is getting there - and doing it with very few new revolvers on the market.

We have the 32 Magnum for 100-grain and lighter bullets. We see the 327 Federal as at its best with 115-grain and heavier bullets.

We live in pecan country and the raccoons are a menace. This is sheep and goat country and we have feral dog and coyote problems. The 22 Hornet, 218 Bee and 25-20 WCF will do the deed under ideal conditions but when the shooting is “catch as catch can,' running off the back porch with a coat in one hand and a rifle in the other they come up short.

The 327 Federal has the bullet weight and velocity for the quick shots when the critter has a good coat of hair in winter.

We are shooting the NEI #82 gas check bullet with a nominal weight of 122-grains. This is the gas check version of the bullet you use and it exhibits good accuracy and deep penetration. When I miss the bunny's body at 50-yards from a squatting position, it is my fault.

We also shoot the NEI #76 125-grain bullet. We are not certain if we get best accuracy with this SWC bullet from deep or shallow seating, whether we are seating in the lower or top crimp groove does affect maximum loads.

Other than showing off, we do not load for highest velocity. Depending on what we are intending to shoot we load these bullets between 1,170 fps and 1,400 fps. While this seems like a wide spread it depends on whether we are using Hodgdon 110, Lil Gun or Alliant 2400, all three powders will deliver good accuracy with the heavy bullets from the Ruger Blackhawk or GP100.

You can load the 327 Federal to higher velocity but the noise levels climb dramatically. We have a sound meter and I will take some Db readings for you. We have not lost a 327 case to date.

We have not tried any “reduced” loads in the 327 brass but I have several powders on hand which should the bill.

While Marlin does need to consider producing a round barrel Model 1894, I am concerned about MSRP as they are climbing. I don't know what the street price is but $800- or $900 dollars for a small game rifle is the kiss of death. I would hope Savage would look at an investment cast 44 or 44 ½ action with a low cost stock and no serious frills - good sights could be added later. A half octagon barrel might make scope mounting a little easier.

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 17 May 2011

How well is the .327 Federal doing for you? You say you are using .32 H&R Mag. and .32 S&W Long in it, what sort of accuracy are you getting in the longer chamber? Have you worked up any cast bullet handloads in the .327 brass? Are any cases available yet besides paying $1 a shot or more for federal ammo? Inquiring minds would like to know, PLEASE!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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argie1891 posted this 17 May 2011

i own 3 32 magnum handguns. a ruger bisley, smith 2 inch carry gun, and a nagant revolver rechambered to 32 mag. a 32 long hand ejector. a shotgun converted to 32 mag. and recently bought a 327 federal now i would have bought another 32 mag but no one is making them anymore. i plan on shooting 32 long and 32 mag only. joe gifford aka argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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