Working with Soft Alloys

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  • Last Post 02 December 2025
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Wm Cook posted this 29 November 2025

A few weeks back I asked a question about alloy/mold temps when casting 20-1. After the feedback I received, I gave it a try and cast good looking bullets with the alloy running 750 PID, and the mold at ~445. Way too hot for anything but iron molds. But it worked.

But how the heck do you check & lube without bumping the bullet? I’m on day 25 since casting and just now, adding the check by hand, crimping the check with the Lyman tool, lubing in the Lyman with an as cast sized sizing/lubing die, and the nose went from .3021 to .3059. This was a 30 cal bore rider bullet with the nose measured with the average measurements at 12:00, 10, 3:00 and 40 position. And I was being gentle when I tried this.

John uses soft alloy & he uses that gas checked MOS die doesn’t he? I must be missing something here. Right?

Bill C.

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Duke_M posted this 30 November 2025

I have had the same problem with soft alloy bore riders in 22's and 30's. I size with Lee push through and have to heat up my lubersizer even with soft lubes to prvent bending and bumping. Mike

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Wm Cook posted this 30 November 2025

My Lyman was fully heated up when I lubed them and I thought I was careful. The only positive was that it bumped up a bit more uniform than when it dropped out of the mold. Bill C.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 30 November 2025

The Lee push through sizer die can size as well as seat gas checks without nose distortion.Then you can apply the gas checks with the Lyman or RCBS lubesizer but you are no longer trying to size a bullet just crimp on the check and it should not take that much force.  And if you have a nice smooth and tapered entry to the Lee sizer, you can seat gas checks as you size the soft bullets.  

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Bud Hyett posted this 30 November 2025

I've gone to a three step gas check seating operation for the Military and Production rifles:

  • Seat the check with an arbor press, check for full seat and squareness
  • Next seat in the .321 die that I use for Schuetzen lubricating. This step sets the gas check firmly at the bottom and tapers the gas check for uniform entry in the next step.
  • Seat in the .3085, or .3105, die and lubricate.

This allows gradual stepdown with less chance of deformation. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Wm Cook posted this 30 November 2025

Bud, what are you using to lube with? I’m using a Lyman and it seems like any pressure on the nose will bumps the bullet’s nose greater than will fit in the bore. Lino I can check and lube nearly same day. #2 I can check & lube in 4 to 6 days. I usually give it a week.

Duane I didn’t know you could add the check on the Lee sizer. Same as with NOE’s sizer I thought it squared the check but not crimp. I snap my checks on by hand and then crimp with the Lyman crimp tool. I guess I need to try checking with the Lee or NOE sizer to see if they crimp the check on.

If 20-1 was my only option I’d be limited to plain base and pan lube. I think the problem might be me. Bill.

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Shopdog posted this 30 November 2025

.302 wouldn't work in any of my barrels so would be taper swaging those down. But to sort of answer the question,I use custom top punches that don't push on the nose.

Used in Lyman 450,the top punch clears the nose and acts or pushes on the top drive band. Simple lathe project.

I forget the measurements but somewhere around a .375 - .400 it starts to run out of room. It can still be done,just gets really close.

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Bud Hyett posted this 30 November 2025

Bud, what are you using to lube with? - RCBS Lubrisizer, LBT Blue Soft using a heater at a low setting.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Idahocaster posted this 30 November 2025

I have used the Lee sizers for crimping gas checks. I have a Lyman 311284 mold that has one cavity that is a hollow point. As cast the nose on that bullet is a great fit in my 1903 30-06. If I use my lubrisizer to size and check those bullets the nose bumps up too large to chamber without seating the bullet much lower in the case. It takes longer to use the Lee sizer and lube separately, but it gives me the results I want so it is worth it!

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OU812 posted this 30 November 2025

Lee sizing die and less neck tension. Simply seating a soft bullet into a tight and dirty case neck can increase bullet diameter.

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OU812 posted this 30 November 2025

After sizing in Lee, you can lube the bullet in seperate operation using .001 larger diameter die of rcbs or lyman sizer.

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Wm Cook posted this 01 December 2025

Tyler was right.  At least with the samples I tried today.  It seems that you can gas check with the Lee lube sizer.  If anyone says different please holler.

Here's what I got.  Remember this was with 20-1 alloy and this is day 24 since casting.

Using the Lyman to seat the check, lube the bullet;

  • Before: The nose was .3026.  Before use the check was ~ .320. 
  • After seating the gas check using the Lyman gas check tool the check came down to .317 with the .311 lube die I was using.
  • After lubing: Once lubed (very warm) in the same (as cast) .311 lube die the nose averaged .3039.  Gas check @ .3113.  Nose got bumped up .0013.  Funny enough, the out of round improved with the random bump it got from the nose punch pressure finalizing the gas check crimp and adding the lube.

Using the Lee to add the check and size the base before lubing in the Lyman;

  • Before: The nose was .3026.  The gas check before crimping was again ~ .320.   
  • After the Lee:  Adding the gas check with the Lee as it was run through the .310 Lee sizer, the gas check sized the base down to .310 and the gas check was proud at .3113
  • After the Lyman lube cycle: The checked and sized bullet run through the Lyman for lubing (again, very warm), using the same .311 sizing die, didn't change the nose dimensions.  It came out ~ .3024 +/- .0002  (margin of error). The gas check was again sized down to .3113.  So the nose wasn't effected when adding warm lube using a thousands oversized die. 

I never would have thought to check and size with the Lee before lubing on the Lyman.  Learning every day, right.  Thanks, Bill.

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Boschloper posted this 01 December 2025

I use home-made push thru sizers.  My Lyman 311291 drops bullets with the driving bands at around .316. I size and seat the gas checks in my 32 mag sizer (.3117), then size again to .3092, then pan lube.  I see no changes to the nose. 

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John Alexander posted this 02 December 2025

I have been off line a few days eating leftovers and missed the discussion but will chime in late.

I am using 30:1 alloy and do pretty much what Duane and OU812 outline.

I put the checks on by hand if possible, If they won't go I use a custom seater.  Then size in Lee. I lube in lubrisizer with die .001 bigger than sized bullet, that's it.'

Of course, you can still upset the nose to a larger diameter, and ruin things, by applying force to the handle of the lubrisizer at the end of the stroke or seating bullets in a too small neck as others have mentioned. Don't think dirty necks are a problem, mine are always dirty.

John

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MP1886 posted this 02 December 2025

I have been off line a few days eating leftovers and missed the discussion but will chime in late.

I am using 30:1 alloy and do pretty much what Duane and OU812 outline.

I put the checks on by hand if possible, If they won't go I use a custom seater.  Then size in Lee. I lube in lubrisizer with die .001 bigger than sized bullet, that's it.'

Of course, you can still upset the nose to a larger diameter, and ruin things, by applying force to the handle of the lubrisizer at the end of the stroke or seating bullets in a too small neck as others have mentioned. Don't think dirty necks are a problem, mine are always dirty.

John

 

John if resizing bottlenecked cartridge the expander ball cleans the majority of the carbon out of the neck. 

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Wm Cook posted this 02 December 2025

“ I put the checks on by hand if possible, If they won't go I use a custom seater.”

John, where in your process are your checks crimped.

All my Hornady checks snap in place by hand but they obviously don’t crimp. With the Lyman lube sizer using their gas check tool it squarely puts the check on the base and fold up the check about half way but doesn’t crimp. I switched the oversized .311 lube die with a .308 and didn’t see any difference.

If limited to the Lyman for checking/lubing, and using the Lyman check tool with with an “as cast” sized lube die, the force of final crimping of the check in the Lyman would deform the nose of my bullets before it even touched the lube.

Tomorrow I’m going to run a couple dozen through the Lee push sizer, adding the check while sizing, to see if the few I tried the other day was representative of what to expect.

The few I checked with the Lee push through sizer (.310) went through the hot .311 Lyman lube die like a hot knife through butter. Zero change to the bullet nose.

I’m struggling with the belief that a push through sizer will properly (consistently) seat the gas check. I guess I’ll find out tomorrow. Thanks to all. Bill C.

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John Alexander posted this 02 December 2025

Bill,

Checks are sized to same diameter as driving bands in Lee. I have no indication that they are coming off - but of course not certain.

MP1886,

I use collet dies for every thing possible. No expander balls.

 

John

John

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