The Last of my LeveRevolution

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Wilderness posted this 3 weeks ago

Larry Gibson has done the heavy lifting on LeveRevolution powder for .30-30. My observations therefore come on the heels of Larry’s work.

I have used up my seventh and last bottle of LeveRevolution in the .30-30, and am now on my last few cartridges. This becomes an opportunity to offer my thoughts on LVR.

Prior to LVR I had been using 748, and will be going back to it. This is mostly an availability issue.

With Sierra 170 and 150 gn bullets, velocity with LVR was as claimed by Hodgdon, 2300 and 2500 fps at max. My 748 loads were 100 fps slower than this, though with (much) better groups.

I conclude that LVR is at its best driving jacketed bullets to higher than normal .30-30 velocity.

My cast bullets are sized down #U321297HP, 16 BHN, 175 gns.

Accuracy testing has been with a Savage 1899 rifle with Leupold scope on 7X.

Best 100 meter LVR accuracy was with 32 gns for 2183 fps and 2.57” five shot group average (17 groups). This is almost identical to what I was getting from 33 gns 748, 2.63” and 2180 fps (7 groups).

The heaviest LVR load used was 34 gns for 2290 fps and 2.97” (4 groups).

My conclusion on cast bullets is that LVR and 748 were equally accurate at the same velocity, but LVR gave the option of going up another 100 fps if required.

LVR evidently does not like being downloaded – the lightest I went was 31 gns, but a colleague who shared a “buy” with me noted much more variable velocities with lighter loads.

An annoying feature of LVR is its apparent temperature sensitivity. On several occasions I shot groups and recorded average velocities up to 50 fps less than previously experienced. I put this down to temperature variation, either ambient or cartridge heat (or lack of it) derived from the rifle as I waited or did not wait for the wind to drop.

LVR is certainly running at less pressure than 748 at the same velocity. I don’t have pressure measuring equipment, but I have been running an observation on case stretch over the life of a batch of brass. Average stretch with jacketed or with 748 cast loads has been .003” - .004”, but with LVR cast only .002”.

Conclusions on LVR: A good powder for top velocity jacketed bullets, and for full power CB hunting loads, but I can do without that occasional 50 fps aberration in group velocity.

You are only as good as your library.

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Shopdog posted this 3 weeks ago

One arbitration for me is which change does better with keeping cold bore shot in the group. Obviously this is more important in the hunting fields,than target work. Good luck with your tests.

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Aaron posted this 3 weeks ago

Great summary on Lvr powder.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Larry Gibson posted this 3 weeks ago

LeveRevolution is a "niche" powder where it performs best with certain bullets in certain cartridges.  With cast bullets in the 30-30 I've found it's best with GC'd cast bullets of 180+ gr in weight.  Dropping even 5 gr of bullet weight does indeed cause inefficiency.  LeveRevolution was perfected for use with Hornady's 160 gr flex tip jacketed bullet.  It does perform exceptionally well with 150,160 and 170 gr Jacketed bullets.  

My 311041HP bullets cast of 50/50 alloy run 178 gr +/- fully dressed.  Out of my 24" barreled M94AE over 36 gr of LeveRevolution they run 2289 fps at a measured 29-30,000 psi.  The ES is less than 50 fps for 10 shots and accuracy with Lyman receiver sight runs 2 - 3" for the 10 shots.  That's good enough for my eyes these days

In years past before LeveRevolution I favored Paco Kelly's loads with H335 with 130/150 gr jacketed bullets and BLC2/748 with jacketed and cast 170 gr bullets.  Velocities with the 311041HP were 100 fps +/- less than with LeveRevolution.  When I measured the pressure of those BLC/748 loads I found them to be 40,000 psi +.  The ES/SDs of the 10 shot tests were not any better than with LeveRevolution.  Yes, less than 50 fps but not any better.  Accuracy was about the same. 

The measured psi of Paco's loads ran 45,000+ psi, higher than the SAMMI MAP for the 30-30 cartridge.  Lyman's max load of 35 gr 748 under a 173 gr 311041 [different Lyman mould with COWW + 2% tin alloy]  Ran right at a measured 42,000 psi. 

LMG

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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Aaron posted this 3 weeks ago

   LeveRevolution is a "niche" powder where it performs best with certain bullets in certain cartridges.  

Spot on I believe! It sure isn't IMR-3031. laughing

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Wilderness posted this 3 weeks ago

This is a good opportunity to point out how bullet type, even one cast design versus another though similar weight, can affect velocity.

With  #311041HP, Larry gets 2289 fps from 36 gns LVR.

With my sized down .32 Special bullets I get 2290 from 34 gns LVR (two grains less). My bullets of course are the special case. Most significant difference I think would be bearing length - #311041 .566 (my mould) versus .600" for #U321297HP .312".

Other differences are bullet length (1.025" #U321297HP versus 1.008"  #311041), seating depth/COL (mine 2.500" - 2.530"), and hardness (mine are harder).

Barrel length is the same 24". My barrel has had about 7,000 full power loads through it, and has a .312" throat (i.e. erosion) which would normally suggest that it needs more powder rather than less, so I'm saying it's the bullets that make the difference.

The chronograph is your friend in these matters - without pressure measurements, we can hope that velocity may give a de facto measure of pressure when all other components are the same. That should start an argument.

You are only as good as your library.

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Aaron posted this 3 weeks ago

The chronograph is your friend in these matters - without pressure measurements, we can hope that velocity may give a de facto measure of pressure when all other components are the same. That should start an argument.

Velocity in this case is a "second level indicator" of pressure. Coupled with other "second level indicators" like extraction ease, primer flattening, and recoil, we get a pretty good sense of when we have screwed the pooch.

cool 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Pigslayer posted this 2 weeks ago

Just a note to those looking for LVR powder. Cabela's has it in stock online.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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