Powder Properties & Cast Bullets

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  • Last Post 05 August 2024
Wm Cook posted this 03 August 2024

This is mainly directed toward long guns & shooting for accuracy.

Has anyone took on a project to research the different powders that fall in the burn range typical for your caliber.

It seems like cast bullets shot for accuracy fall in the 1600-1800fps range.  Many/most cast bullets are shot in cases that were designed for jacketed bullets and smokeless powder using full case loads of powder.  With that velocity there’s only a few powders that will fill half the case. This is assuming you aren’t using fillers which would be time consuming in competition. And this is excluding specials like the 30BR, 32 Henry etc.

I count over 40 powders (maybe 15 different burn rate levels or rungs on the ladder) between Unique and 4895 which “in theory” could be shot in the 308. They run the gamut of SB extruded, SB tubular extruded, DB extruded, DB extruded tubular, ball, mushed ball, flake etc.

I believe; 4759 was SB extruded, I4227 is SB tubular extruded, 2400 is DB flake. Small SD’s is no predictor of accuracy but some powders like 2400, 5744 shoot 200 grain 30 cal bullets in single digit.

Just wondering if anyone took on an extensive effort to go outside the normal powders that we have on our shelves. Thanks, Bill C

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RicinYakima posted this 03 August 2024

Bill,

I don't know of anyone doing extensive research after cast bullet shooting picked up in the 1980's and 1990's. Our founders were real experimenters and they passed on what worked then and still works today. The only powders I can think of made for cast bullets in the last 40 years are 5744, double based tubular, and Trail Boss, a single base flake powder. 

While shooting CBA matches for 20 years, the first ten I experimented with many powers, but not extensively. 

My experience was all with the 30/06, 308 and 30/30. In the '06 and 308, I found the single base tubular powders like SR4759, H/IMR 4227 and 4198 was used more and shot more consistently. To reach 1800 f/s 4895 S/T worked well. My preferred speed was 1450/1500 f/s and A2400, double base and  tubular, was the best for me. 

Only in the smaller case 30/30 did I find more double based powders useful. Bullseye, AA#2 and AA#9 are all very useable only because you have enough pressure to make the chemical coatings on double based powders consistently burn. 

Reloder 7 is a good double base powder to try for the 308, as is Ramshot True Blue. 

HTH's Ric

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Wm Cook posted this 04 August 2024

I'm unable to get to the range but I can run velocities and SD's.  This is what I've put together.  I picked up a bottle of N110 and hopefully I'll get to the range and see how some of this shop work works on shooting groups.  Bud also mentioned N340.  David Reiss was working with Ken Johnson / Shooters World a couple years back about producing something close to the 4759.  I've never shot that and always wondered about it.  Thanks, Bill C.

 

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RicinYakima posted this 04 August 2024

Is that real life stuff or modeling?

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Wm Cook posted this 04 August 2024

Rick, those are actual numbers but it's out of context since it shows only the velocity and SD for a single powder charge and that can be misleading.  I apologize for that. 

Powders that I sampled were judged as either passing or failing based on how velocities laddered up in a progressive fps manner as the charge increased; while still keeping SD’s under 25.  All work was done with a .308 Winchester and either a 210g  or a 220g bullet. 

I was looking for the efficient use of the powder charge (velocity) and consistent use of the burned energy (SD) while I worked with independent variables that included SR v LR, powders (Unique to H4985) and flash hole diameters (.059 to .140") .  I’ll post some of the crash and burns later today.  Thanks, Bill C.

 

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Tom Acheson posted this 04 August 2024

I stand accused of not conducting the research that many do here,

When I was going to South Dakota for an annual sod poodle shooting trip, I used a Stolle Panda chambered in 6 mm BR and used either Vihtavouri 133 or 135 with 70-grain jacketed bullets. Bucked the wind better than the 223 or 22-250.

When I got interested in the CBA matches, I used a 6 PPC case necked up to 30 cal. in an XP-100 for the LRH category. And I continued using either of the two Vihtavouri powders with 160-170-grain cast bullets. MV  was about 1950-2100 fps. This was in 2006-2010. The concept of trying to match powder properties to cast bullets was not anything I contemplated. I just tried different powders and let the target tell me what was or was not working.

Tom

 

 

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4and1 posted this 05 August 2024

I am a firm believer that powders have their own characteristics and burn rates don't mean much, and there are definitely certain powders that just work for a particular cartridge/bullet.

Case in point in the jacketed world, the 30BR with 110-120 grain bullets will shoot very small groups with H4198. It shoots day in and day out, a match made in heaven. 

My cast shooting is limited to the 30BR and 30PPC, I only shoot 3 different bullets, but my goal is accuracy. I have tried many powders. There is no doubt in my mind some powders just don't group well for me, and some show promise. Time at the bench testing is the only way to find out.

Edit: I should add, every gun is different, has it's own likes and dislikes. What works for one may be a dud in another. 

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