Paper Patch Cast Bullet Matches

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  • Last Post 27 April 2017
j.j.h posted this 23 April 2017

Are there any Cast Bullet Association match categories which permit shooting paper patched cast bullets in an official match?

paper-patch-match

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John Alexander posted this 23 April 2017

I don't know of anything in the rules that prohibits paper patching. I hope you will enter a CBA match and give it a try.  The more variations in approaches the more interesting.  Maybe paper patched bullets are the answer.

Best of luck.

John

 

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R. Dupraz posted this 23 April 2017

I'm with john. Paper patching is great fun. Used to do a lot of that back when shooting a Shiloh Sharps 45x2.4. The finest groups that I ever shot with this rifle were with BP and paper patched 550 grainers at two hundred and beyond. Some groups would rivaled those shot by these modern cast belching contraptions.

Give it a go and see what happens. Let us know how it works out.

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rmrix posted this 23 April 2017

You can try G. Warden's upcoming BPCR fun postal match to see how you fare. Details are found (here) in last months forum.

I will be trying this match soon and maybe with PP bullets.

Give it a go. The price is right.

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j.j.h posted this 24 April 2017

I appreciate all the responses and words of encouragement.  I have never tried paper patching (PP) but I have ordered a Lee .285 lube sizer die which I will attempt to hone out to .301 as described in Ed Wosika's “A New Approach to Paper-Patch Bullets".  I plan on comparing the same loads using a Lyman 311299 bullet prepared as a PP bullet versus the same bullet prepared as a conventional gas-checked lubed bullet.  Just a curiosity.  I guess when I shoot the PP bullet in a match I'll just put “PP” in the lubricant column of the load description.

John

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 April 2017

i should mention there is a groundhog match coming up right now for 30 cal plain base ... might be fun to try some paper patch versions ... see jim scearcy's groundhog posts for more info ...

there is a lot to be learned from paper patch ... for me the question is >> why does it seem to peak at 2 moa ?? .... and yes, 2 moa is probably more than adequate for most any use except group competition .... certainly better than almost all my plinker loads ... i tried pp 20 years ago with 7mm but it was more hassle than i had time for with the classic methods i used ...  is there a easier/faster way to pp ??   i see some tried dipping in paper pulp ... etc. ...  i did look up purchasing paper pulp ... heh ...

ken

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45 2.1 posted this 24 April 2017

... for me the question is >> why does it seem to peak at 2 moa ?? .... ken

As with ANYTHING, results depend on what you do. PP bullets need to bump up... no bump up = no accuracy. Patched diameter needs to be about 0.0005” under throat size. A loverin patches nicely, provided it's base is at the base of the neck and the patch is snugged into the throat firmly. And NO, it doesn't peak at 2 MOA. That in itself a sign you need to get your ducks in a row and find out what you did wrong. As for ultimate accuracy, a naked cast bullet has few opponents that can best it........ PP is not one of them either.

 

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beltfed posted this 25 April 2017

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beltfed posted this 25 April 2017

45 2.1,

How about this kind of grouping with PP bullets at 100 yds.  Also

did 3rd place last yr at ISSA Schutzen Regional shot at 200 yds.

My 40-65W  with a PP bullet cast of 9+1  WW/Lino.

over 74.5 gr Swiss 1.5 BP

Velocity 1400 fps

Bump up not necessary with the right bullet dimensions.

beltfed/arnie

 

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beltfed posted this 25 April 2017

Oh, that group measures about 0.6” center to center.

beltfed/arnie

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45 2.1 posted this 25 April 2017

45 2.1,

How about this kind of grouping with PP bullets at 100 yds. Good group.... the 45-70 will do that and a bit better most of the time. the limit being my eyesight and sometimes a low power scope.  But the 45-70 and most of the traditional calibers will shoot naked bullets into better groups also. A full blown Scheutzen rifle is a grand thing.... I have to put up with the Browning BPCR and Traditional Hunters, various Rolling Blocks and Marlins.

Also did 3rd place last yr at ISSA Schutzen Regional shot at 200 yds. Congratulations.... good shooting.

My 40-65W  with a PP bullet cast of 9+1  WW/Lino.

over 74.5 gr Swiss 1.5 BP

Velocity 1400 fps

Bump up not necessary with the right bullet dimensions. I don't usually hear of a BP shooter using a hard alloy and groove plus dimensions on their PP bullets. In your case that would be correct. Usually I hear relatively soft bullets patched to bore size and seated deep into rifling. Both work, but not to the same accuracy level.

beltfed/arnie

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 April 2017

wow guys... this is really a revelation to me !! .... indeed i have somehow missed all these years that paper patch could give consistent * under 2 moa * groups !! .... 

perhaps this flawed view of mine was created by not seeing actual good targets of pp shooting ....   

i have read the Mathews books but now i realize that since he was primarily a hunter he did not invest the additional effort to develop pp loads giving  more accuracy than what he deemed adequate for the way he hunted .

i look forward to watching for more reports of precision paper patch shooting; in my life i have found that every time i think i have attained some increased level of performance ... i find out that invariably i have only by sheer luck followed in others' footsteps .... may explain my overwhelming humbleness ...

i wonder if there might be a paper patch-only  match ( groundhog ?? )  in our future ??   be great to see more targets with those tight groups ... and the methods used to patch ...

ken... 

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beltfed posted this 25 April 2017

45 2.1,

 My 40-65 is simply a rebarreled, restocked orig Win Hi Wall I picked up for $1100, not a

full blown Schuetzen rifle. Before that I shot my Brg 45-70 or Brg 40-65.

 I mostly shoot BPTR and Gong matches locally here in Wi.  Actually,

I enjoyed shooting it for years with my Elliptical Minigroove  gg bullet,

before I decided to try PPing. The rifle shoots equally as well with that bullet.

I was not trying to brag. Just pointing out that a PP bullet can shoot right with the GGs.

And, even contrary to usual practice in the PP crowd of using Only Pure Lead-Tin alloys,

Antimony alloy bullets can work, too

Best regards

beltfed/arnie

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45 2.1 posted this 25 April 2017

beltfed-

   Still a nice rifle to handle and shoot. I'm interested in your method and sizes of slug and patching. Would you please describe how you load. Does your rifle have a freebore... it would seem so from the picture.

  As far as antimonial alloy working, yes it does, but I don't shoot BP to bump them either. Standard throats predominate in the rifles I use and I want expansion besides excellent accuracy.

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R. Dupraz posted this 25 April 2017

One target that I shot some years ago and saved. 185 yards over X sticks. 45X2.4 Shiloh Sharps. 540 grain, PP to bore, fff Goex Black. That lower left hole is actually two shots. Don't know what I did, but did it exact same twice.

The X ring is 1 3/4 “  Micrometer irons. Back when I could still see.

 

 

 

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beltfed posted this 26 April 2017

R.Dupraz,

Are you sure your shot that with a 240 gr bullet? That's a pistol bullet in 45 cal.

beltfed/arnie

45-2.1,

I will get around to giving you a better description of my bullets/loading etc.

beltfed/arnie

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beltfed posted this 26 April 2017

Oh,

45-2.1, you mention soft bullets for hunting:

I have shot a number of deer with my 358 Win with my 9+1 ww/lino 358318 bullet Paper Patched

and clocking 2350.  The results on deer are just fine.

 

I also hope to find some time to get back to working with my Lyman 301618 and 301620 bullets

out of a couple 30 cal rifle I have.  One, a 32-40 Rem Hep on a Brg BPCR rifle, plus

several '06 Mil rifles and etc.

beltfed/arnie

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R. Dupraz posted this 26 April 2017

You got me beltfed! Thanks for catching that. The bullet was a cast smooth PP 540 grainer from a custom PP mold. The mold casts a smooth sided bullet that is .003” under bore size. Then is patched back up with two wraps of my paper to bring it  to just over bore for a interference slip fit up the tube. 

Edit time.

 

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beltfed posted this 27 April 2017

R.Dupraz

Not trying to “get you” just figured it had to be a typo

since otherwise all about your 45-2.4 Shiloh and loads were “right there",

tho it is a little less common using 3f in a 45-2.4. But I know some people do

use 3f in the larger cases to good effect

Good shooting!

beltfed/arnie

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