HNT class question

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  • Last Post 25 November 2023
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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

Can a plunger type ejector be removed in HNT class. The rules lean towards no but I see its allowed for PRO rifles. It's not a permanent change and would help people from chasing brass around and easily reinstalled for hunting purposes. Especially the load one case guys.

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Larry Gibson posted this 24 October 2023

 To keep in the spirit of the class; if the plunger came in the bolt and is used when "hunting" then it should be in the bolt during competition. 

In my own opinion I don't think the use of one case and loading it between shots should be allowed in Hunter Class either as that isn't done when hunting.   

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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linoww posted this 24 October 2023

when I shoot CBA matches some ranges don't allow a magazine in the gun though its designed to be used with one.As well CBA rules don't allow muzzle breaks though they are factory installed (they must be taped over) I see removing plunger as no difference and no advantages gained over other rifles.

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

Larry, if removing the ejector or loading one case at the bench offered an advantage over other shooters I'd tend to agree with you but the only advantage gained as far as I can tell is to the person shooting the gun, no chasing brass that managed to slip past your fingers. And where you think something is gained by loading at the bench rather than hauling it already prepared I have no idea. And who knows if there aren't hunters out there in the woods using guns with missing or broken ejectors? Sitting at a cement bench shooting off of front and rear rests with a pointy 30 caliber bullet going 1500-1700 fps at fixed distances with flags wavng around in front of you is pretty far away from an actual hunting scenario. To my way of think removing the ejector is no different than removing sling swivels or the iron sights from a gun you mounted a scope on for whatever reason. None are permanent changes and easily reinstalled and offer no advantages except to the owner.

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ray h posted this 24 October 2023

Pat just clipped the ejector spring shorter. I have all my varmint rifles set up that way. Cases just cock out at a angle and easy to pick out. Take off a little at a time till you get what works for you. And you're still stock parts

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 24 October 2023

 @Pat i. the rules are clear. Removing the ejector is not listed so it is not allowed. Any member can petition for a rule change by submitting the change in writing to the CBA Secretary. The proposed revision will then be published in TFS and after a period of time voted on by the BOD. 

The class is all about "the rifle" loading at the bench is not addressed in the rule. I don't see it as an advantage in any way.

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

Thanks guys and Ray you're a genius and I don't know why I didn't think of that. I cant see any reason that wouldnt be allowed. I think I'll put in for a rule, addition not change, though just to keep it all above board. Allowing throating and ejector removal in PRO (the key word here being production) class and not allowing something as simple as losing the ejector in HNT (hunting rifles are mass produced same as Pro class guns) class seems silly to me. If plunger type ejector removal gave someone a big advantage everyone would be jumping of the fixed ejector actions. No matter what anyone claims were all competitive and looking for a leg up on the competition. I can honestly say the only reason I want to dump my ejector is so I can keep my ass firmly planted on the stool and not have to get up and chase my lone little case when it slips by my greasy fingers.

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

So would shortening the ejector spring like Ray suggested pass muster?

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linoww posted this 24 October 2023

To me, it seems like hunter rules should be written just like production class, the only factor limiting should be weight of rifle. My understanding was it was added, so there was not the big advantage of varmint rifles to average sporting guns guys had when the weight limit was raised years ago. I was at the Nationals 20 plus years back  when it was voted to raise weight and Bob Sears labeled it "legalized cheating"

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

George I agree to a certain degree but would have to say thoating a HNT gun NOT be allowed. But then again I'm not a big proponent of allowing custom throating in PRO class rifles. Once the camel gets his nose under the tent who knows where it's gonna lead. I like the way the HNT class rule is written. Say what few things are allowed and if it's not written in black and white it's not allowed. Unfortunately my like of the rule has been tempered a bit by the fact that it just bit me in the ass when it comes to this ejector thing.

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John Alexander posted this 24 October 2023

When I was writing and rewriting and rewriting the HR rules If I had thought of it I would have added removing the ejector along with other thing routinely done to hunting rifles such as trigger adjustment, bedding, shortening the buttstock, etc.

Now because of the "if it ain't listed it ain't allowed" it would take a rule change to add ejectors to the list of allowable. It is a pain to go through the process and requires publishing in the FS so any member has a chance to object to their regional director. But I can't see many board votes against the change.

Trying to write rule that doesn't need to be tweaked after it is in use tends to make you humble.

John

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

John I'm well aware that writing rules is an excersize in frustration and appreciate the effort you put in to it. One thing I'm firmly against is bending or breaking a rule for your own benefit which is why I asked the question before just taking the ejector out and keeping my mouth shut. I suppose shortening the spring would be kinda bending but not actually breaking the rules in some people's eyes but if I could get a ruling if it's legal or not I'd appreciate it. I don't know if thats something one board member has say over or if it's a complete, or at least as many as you can get to reply thing, board decision. Since it's not changing any part of the rule and once again I doubt any match director would check, if at all possible, it should be any easy answer to come up with without going through the rule change rigamarole.

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Bud Hyett posted this 24 October 2023

If you want to shorten the spring to the point it only tips the case up, then do it. This is the most practical and easiest to do. Other competitors will probably not notice this change in the heat of competition. Plus the rifle retains functionality for use in the field.

When using a friction wheel to cut be sure to dip the spring into water as soon as it is cut as you may affect the temper. Also have a source for another spring, you may need it. 

My thought is the time spent doing this is much better spent practicing at the range refining your ability to judge wind and mirage with your rifle. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 24 October 2023

I am right handed and shoot a right handed bolt action in HNT. I lift bolt handle with right hand and work bolt with left catching empty case with right. My Ruger does not have a plunger ejector. I have also used a Savage, but don't recall the ejector type they use. 

I appreciate that you want to compete within the spirit of the rules. I would be surprised if there was any pushback to a rules change. I went through the process to write a rule/class proposal early this year. Even submitted it. The discussion that followed partly contributed to my withdrawing the proposal. Yeah, it's a humbling thing trying to think of all the issues and propose something. 

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Tom Acheson posted this 24 October 2023

My CBA match guns do not inclde a Hunter category rifle. The most thankless job in the CBA is the task of writing equipment rules. There is no end to all the "help" you will get.

Just me but two things I've never fully warmed up to...

Military "sporterized" allowance. It is "an as issue" based category. I don't care how many guys say they "MIGHT shoot in Military if they can use their sporterized rifle". 

Hunter category is supposed to replicate what a "typical" hunter would take to the field with. No limitation scope power is not a fit. Military scopes are power limited. Why is that mindset not present in the Hunter category?

Not interested in arguing, debating, etc. This is just an observation. The horse is out of the barn and he ain't coming back.

Tom

 

 

 

 

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delmarskid posted this 24 October 2023

Maybe stand a cardboard box along side your rifle with a rock in it?

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 October 2023

i like relaxing the spring and don't mention it ..  comes under no harm no foul ......  ... ... for ultimate obsessive 11 pound benchresters the argument for removing the plunger ejector is that it might tilt the case ....

in otherwise legal Hunter class, it just don't matter.  it probably changes the vibrations but so does where you place your left thumb on the bench ...  and some guns you might shoot against don't have a plunger anyway ...

besides, i removed the plunger in my remmy 700 243 coyote rifle because i didn't like to chase brass in the weeds and snow.   so there is at least one actual field hunting precedent ... heh ...

ken the interested observitator, not having fired one shot in CBA comp ...

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Larry Gibson posted this 25 October 2023

"Larry, if removing the ejector or loading one case at the bench offered an advantage over other shooters I'd tend to agree with you but the only advantage gained as far as I can tell is to the person shooting the gun, no chasing brass that managed to slip past your fingers. And where you think something is gained by loading at the bench rather than hauling it already prepared I have no idea."

pat i

If we allow such changes to begin it starts the slippery slope to an "equipment race" so to speak.  Soon the Hunter class would actually look like and not be much different from the other classes.  If we break or bend one rule, then why not another rule then another rule....?  Why have rules at all then?  We've all seen it happen too many times not only in cast bullet competitions but also all the other shooting sports.  

As to using one cases and loading at the bench t's "hunter" class so how many "hunters" carry one case, loose powder, bullets and primers plus the equipment to load with into the field while hunting or even varmint shooting.  Yes, there may be one of two eccentric individuals out there who have tried it but is the very rare exception going to be the rule?  Again, if so, then why have any rules?  

LMG

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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pat i. posted this 25 October 2023

I imagine the "hunters" loading one case in the woods are about the same amount as the ones dragging a 500 pound concrete bench, front and rear rest, a set of wind flags, spotting scope in some instances, and whatever else a shooter might think he needs for a match, to his stand. Just to please you I'll leave the ejector as is but you'll have to pry my one case and loading at the bench from my cold dead hands! I dont know why the way I load bothers you so much. The rules are about the equipment thats allowed. No where does the method of feeding it get any print. What benefit do you think loading one case provides? During a match PPB guys breechseat. A lot or most custom class shooters load behind the line. Im not sure what PRO shooters do, probably a mix of loading at the range or at home. I choose to load at the bench. Could whoevers in charge around here delete this whole thread or tell me how?

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John Alexander posted this 25 October 2023

 Pat,

I think  this thread has been interesting and shows the difficulty off getting the perfect set of rules.  I don't think it should be deleted -- yet.

It also has once again let members know that they have the right to propose a change and have it be considered by the board.  

Anybody who has written a set of rules, and then when in use, realized that it both excluded some things that are harmless and didn't exclude some that that were definitely not in the spirit of fair competition, knows that changing rules is necessary and is usually the opposite of a slippery slope, but instead heading off some shooter trying to start the equipment race.  Since 2000 the board has approved many changes and clarifications to our rules i can't think of one that "loosened" the rules to allow the start of an equipment race. I think that speaks to the good sense of the folks have served on the Board.

John

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linoww posted this 25 October 2023

I'm curious why opinions are so strong from certain people that do not compete in cba matches

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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