Clean Barrel POI with Cast Bullets - Part 2

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Wilderness posted this 21 April 2024

 

This is a follow up to my previous post on clean barrel POI with .30-30 CB hunting loads.

On that occasion the bullet was 175 gn #U321297HP sized down to .312” and 33 gns 748, Lyman Orange Magic lube, velocity 2180 fps.  Range was 100 metres and groups were five shots.

Rifle is Savage 99 with 24” 1:12 barrel. Scope is Leupold VXI 2-7, set on 7 for this shooting.

From that test it appeared that a trace of Ed’s Red remaining after cleaning ensured the following shot going to group – an important consideration for a hunting load. A dried out barrel (first fouling shot) sent the fouler high.

Cleaning between shots, trying to get a better representation of POI for the clean barrel shot, produced a five shot group of 1.67” with POI an inch below the regular group. This POI result, and the apparent reliability of the clean barrel shot, confirmed the practice of shooting with just a trace of Ed’s Red in the bore. This (bore conditioning, 33 gns 748, LOM) looks like a reliable hunting setup.

Next to be tested was the same bullet with 32 gns LeveRevolution, 2500+ lube, velocity 2177 fps.

This load behaved differently. Despite the bore having been wiped recently with Ed's Red, the fouler went about 4 ½” high and, more unusually,  the first shot of the group also blew out high. The shots are circled in the image.

The next shot and the rest of the shots were down where they should be. The group without the first shot was under 2”. Tentative conclusions – 2500+ lube requires a different preconditioning, and may need more than just the single fouler before shooting the group. So far, this combination does not look like a good proposition for clean barrel hunting.

The next group was at 200 metres (not shown), same load, the barrel having been preconditioned by the previous six shots. Group was a whisker under 6” and a couple of inches low on my estimated sight setting.  Leaving the barrel uncleaned for longer might be an option if using this load. So far no sign of curvilinear group increase with distance. RPM 130,200.

The benchresters among us may scoff at these groups, but what they represent is my chosen balance between getting a heavy hit on to the hog (velocity) and actually hitting him (accuracy).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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sghart3578 posted this 21 April 2024

I too have experimented along these lines with tumble lube and 2500+.  For me I stick with tumble lube (BLL in my case).

I clean with Ed's Red.  After a range session I clean with Ed's Red and if I'm going to hunt with that rifle I fire another fouling group of 4-5 shots and then do nothing to the rifle but put it away.

My cold bore shots go where I want them to go.

When I tested 2500+ it seemed to take around 10 shots to condition the bore for a reliable cold bore shot after cleaning.

YMMV

Coincidentally I am fighting the exact problem of cold bore flyers with a Savage 99 in 30-30.  The rifle is new to me.  The cleaning routine, lube and loads that work in my Marlin 30-30 don't seem to transfer over to my new to me 1899.

I am beginning to suspect a fore end pressure problem so next week I intend to shoot without the fore end to see if that makes a difference.

Best of luck.

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Wilderness posted this 21 April 2024

Interesting comment re 2500+, since this is almost my first experience of it. Good grouping performance is of only academic interest if it doesn't apply to the shots that count. Lyman Orange Magic seems reliable in this regard. See my recent previous post on this subject.

I'll be hunting with this rifle hopefully from now until the end of the year, but would be reluctant to leave it uncleaned for all that time.

Send me a PM with details of your rifle and loads and we can discuss what helps them shoot. I bench mine with the receiver on the sand bag.

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Spindrift posted this 21 April 2024

Interesting post!

I have no experience with 2500+ lube. But I'll offer a suggestion anyway, for what it's worth;

I would rub some 2500+ on a cleaning patch. After cleaning, I would try running this lubed patch through the bore a few times, to deposit some lube there. Might help- I don't know.

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Wilderness posted this 21 April 2024

Thanks SD - will try it next week. I plan to run another 100 metre group with the same load but two foulers this time and some bore preparation. Cartridges are loaded and waiting - actually ageing. I like to give them at least a week for the bullets to get a grip on the case necks.

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sghart3578 posted this 21 April 2024

Spindrift,

That is a good suggestion.  I have done the same with Alox-based BLL.  After cleaning with Ed's Red I would dry the bore with clean patches and then run another clean patch dampened with BLL on it to store the rifle.  Alox makes a fine preservative.

The first shots always went into the group.  

I may go back to this system since it seemed to work.

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Wilderness posted this 21 April 2024

Yes, I expect the answer will lie in leaving some sort of bore residue that mimics prefouling. Alternately, identify and avoid (for hunting) those lubes that are problematic. This bore treatment may be with the lube itself, or in the case of the Alox based lubes it may be with liquid Alox or similar (which I don't have).

I have already established that a fresh residue of Ed's Red seems to do the job with Orange Magic, but not with 2500+. Unfortunately I am at the end of my Orange Magic

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