BP cartridge match- new?

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GWarden posted this 10 December 2016

How, and is there enough interest to have a postal match for cast with Black Powder. I think many underestimate the accuracy with cast and BP loads. Have bench 100 and 200 yd. , allow any lead bullet, breech seat or fixed. Could allow any power scope. There are some that have spent the time, and such loads will shoot right along with smokeless loads. Would be great to share the info with other shooters, and see just how good such BP loads can be developed. I would be willing to help with such a postal match in any way I could. You all have a good day.

Bob   Iowa

If you want to see this type of match come to be, go to the Polls category and vote. Most of you are just saying you like this, but you have to vote!

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delmarskid posted this 10 December 2016

I would like that. Last time it was brought up I wanted to but the no duplex loads irritated me.

 

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.22-10-45 posted this 10 December 2016

I like that idea..especially the 100yd. bench.  I only have access to 100yd. range..and I am sure I am not alone with this “handicap"  I know alot of guys look down their nose at such “short range” for BPCR, but if everyone is shooting at the same distances, it's all relavent..accuracy can be compared.  I hope to be able to finally do some paper-patch shooting with my Ballard .40-63 Everlasting this coming year, and this would sure be a welcome challange!  Hope it flies. 

 

 

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Tom Acheson posted this 10 December 2016

Check out match the BPCR #22 in the CBA Postal match outline elsewhere on this site. 200-yards, prone or off cross sticks. PB bullets only. Some gun rules apply.

 

Tom

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David Reiss posted this 10 December 2016

I am trying to figure out how to start a poll on this. I think this is a good idea and even better you are willing to help.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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rhbrink posted this 10 December 2016

Tom

Am aware of the match#22, it is a good match for BP, but seems to be exclusive, eliminating a lot of shooters. A bench match any sights any loads to get the most out of BP loads. How does one go about getting a new match started? Can we get this going through the forum, see how many shooters we have this coming season and evaluate from there? 

Bob

The best thing to do is keep talking about it try to get some interest, in my area Pioneer Gun Club I have been trying for some to time to generate some interest in a single shot match but not much happening so far. Several guys were interested in a black powder match but that was about as far as it went. I would for sure open up the matches to allow most any single shot rifle firing a original black powder cartridge rollers, break open, Martini's, Rugers, Borchardt's. I think that the NRA BPCR matches are way too restrictive on the action types and rule out too many potential shooters.  I would not be in favor of duplex loads and I'm sure that you would hear a lot of complaints about scopes and iron sights so you would need two classes. I would be available to help score or help in any way.

 

Richard brinkman

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Tom Acheson posted this 11 December 2016

OK guys...this is the place!

The Timed Fire Handgun and the 200-yard BPCR Postal matches orginated here (forum) and we are on the verge of getting a Bunny Gun Postal launched in the CBA Postal program.

Two things to remember..

   Someone has to step firward and be the ” Match Director"

   We'll never come up with rules, etc. that EVERYONE likes.

But it can be done. 

 

Tom

 

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David Reiss posted this 11 December 2016

Go to the “General Polls” category to vote on your interest in this type of match.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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rhbrink posted this 11 December 2016

I looked up the TQ 3/5 I think that would be a tough target for old eyes and iron sights at 100 yards? I would suggest at 100 yards the MR-31 C which is the military target and most if not all CBA clubs would have those. The TQ-4 at 200 is OK. Could make it easy and just use the same targets that the military shooters use across the board?

RB

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Tom Acheson posted this 11 December 2016

Agree that 100-yards is the max distance that potential participants have access to.

To open up the gun requirements would it fly to say any single shot with exposed hammer, plain base bullet, BP, iron and scoped categories, from the bench with your favorite front and rear rest? Limit the scope power to 6x like the CBA Military game?

I'm guessing that matches with BP only are just trying to keep things “traditional". Have no idea if pretend BP or duplex loads are equal to BP in the accuracy dept. If there is a consensus that all three propellants are somewhat equal then let all of them play?

 

Tom

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.22-10-45 posted this 11 December 2016

Eliminating hammerless rifles would  shut out such historical 19th century target /sporting rifles such as the Sharps Borchardt and the Peabody “What Cheer” rifles..both of which saw use at Creedmoor..I can understand trying to stop an “arms race"  using modern hammerless designs..but I think having rules against this sort of thing could be set in place.

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Tom Acheson posted this 11 December 2016

I confess I know little about those mentioned hammerless rifles. What do the rest of you potential participants think?

 

Tom

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David Reiss posted this 11 December 2016

Remember to vote in the poll section.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 12 December 2016

i have never shot bp, and so don't yet have a dog in this race... but remember that

ruger 1 y 3 do have a hammer ... it is just ( mostly ) enclosed ...

...hmmm... is the hr handi-rifle included ?

i think this match needs a dictator ( g ) , and when the goal is determined, the rules can be revealed .

i like the idea of these special matches .

ken

 

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GWarden posted this 12 December 2016

I was looking at this match as one to get the potential out of BP cartridge, not just from using traditional exposed hammer, or 6X limit on scope power. Both these are limiting shooters. I am for any rifle being used and not limiting scope power, that right there would eliminate me from being able to use what I have. Hopefully it is to get the most out of the potential of the BP cartridge. Just my two cents worth. I have seen some of the smallest groups shot with IS at 200yds over other shooters using scopes, still trying to figure that out. Have a great day. Have a separate match for IS, and one for scope. I have seen how complicated it can be in getting a new match started. 

Bob

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GWarden posted this 12 December 2016

Forget what I mentioned earlier on targets. Need to use our existing targets that are used in other CBA matches. So how about for scope 100yd the CBA score/group target   IS the TQ-4. For 200yd scope the MR-31, IS MR-52.   For 200yds  10 shots on record target. For 100yd. scope score- 2 shots on each bull, group 5 shot on each bull, 4 bulls shot.  IS 100yd,  5 shots each on two bulls.

 

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GWarden posted this 12 December 2016

While we are on the subject, everyone willing to do 4 months, starting in May, all targets in by Sept. or just a one time match between May and Aug.?  I see there is more to getting this going than what I realized. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 12 December 2016

i like the idea that the goal will be to see how good black powder cartridge shooting can be...with the benefit of improving our methods ... ( and, i suspect, including improving even smokeless techniques ) .

...and since the sense of this is toward research for better shooting .... i would hope that full information on loads, equipment, methods, and comments from the shooters could be reported in full ...

as opposed to the valuable current postal matches, aimed more toward winning and necessarily limited by publishing space, where only the top few shooters are listed ...

thank you mr. warden for your initiative in proposing this shoot, and keep me in mind if i can help in any way ...

i might even dig out that can of 3fg from 30 years ago ...  is there such a thing as a safe reduced black powder load for my r1 in 300 win mag ( bottle necks ) ??...  see, a chance for enlightenment already ( g ) ...

ken

 

 

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GWarden posted this 12 December 2016

You got it Ken, hopefully we can all share what makes our BP rifles shoot, and get the most accuracy out of them. Sure would want everyone to share their equip and methods with everyone. I met you a few years ago when I drove down to you place to get a big box of “Precision Shooting” magazines you were giving away. Take care, and hope you can get involved with shooting in the matches.Have a good day.

Bob

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rhbrink posted this 12 December 2016

The next hard part after you get the rules finalized and everybody accept them is to get the same people to out and shoot the match!!!! And turn in the targets on time!!!!!

Richard

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Tom Acheson posted this 12 December 2016

Bob,

There are two potential routes here.

Remember, the first year is a trial year to measure the interest in our crowd by how many people actually shoot.

Keep in mind that all Postals are based on the honor system. Someone (the Match Director?) works up an allowable gun/load definition, shooting distance and time, target to be used, categories (scope or iron sights), score or group or both, etc. That gets published in a forum post. And yes, the Match Director can shoot too. …..Honor system!

 

Informal approach

The targets are bought by the individual shooter from National Target, Midway, etc. He shoots them before the closing date. He posts his results before a specific date, hopefully with a photo of the target but at least the gun, load, score/group size details, on the forum. No awards, just self-satisfaction. Re-entry targets are OK. A re-entry is shooting a second or more target in the same category using the same gun. The first target is the one for “record” the others are for fun and information gathering/sharing.

 

More Organized Approach

The Match Director buys a pile of targets. The shooter orders his targets from the MD. (The CBA Postal program gets $5 per entry but that has been static for a long time and the fees may be raised someday.) The MD has to guess how many entries he’ll have and then divide that into his cost for the targets and outgoing postage/printing if he wants to break even and not self-fund the events. This determines the fees involved. There is a Tech Data Sheet included with each target. The shooter sends his fired target(s) and executed Tech Data Sheet(s) to the MD before the due date. The MD scores the targets and publishes the results on the Forum. It probably works to make an Excel sheet with the names, scores, gun, load details, etc. and then make a pdf of it and post it on the Forum.

 I may have missed something so let me know.

 

 

Tom

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