What’s the best way to get consistent accuracy with cast bullets?

821 Views
Last Post 1 weeks ago

Standard Member

alfonso_gutem posted this 3 weeks ago

Howdy,

Disclaimer: newbie here... sorry if this has been asked before.

I’ve been getting more interested in cast bullets lately, and one thing I’m still trying to figure out is how much effort is really necessary to get good, repeatable accuracy. There are so many variables involved — alloy, bullet fit, sizing, lubrication, powder charge, etc. — that it can be hard to know what to concentrate on first.

For those of you who have been casting and shooting for years, what would you say are the few things that make the biggest difference? Is there a particular mistake you see beginners making over and over again? I’d be interested in hearing what you’ve found actually matters at the range, rather than just what sounds good in theory.

Cheers,

Alfonso G.
Fleuriste Neuchatel
Switzerland

Attached Files

Liked by

31 Comments

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes

CBA Member

fa38 posted this 3 weeks ago

Reloading manuals

Bullet and bullet fit.

Look at the match results for direction on this site for powders used by the shooters.

What rifle are you shooting? If a K31 there is lots of info in the match results.

Attached Files

Liked by

CBA Member

Aaron posted this 3 weeks ago

Persistence. Persistence in the casting craft, marksmanship, loading, and continual education in all facets of the craft. There isn’t one or two single things. Development in the many facets is the name of the game. Just get started and read, read, study, apply, learn from the mistakes, grow, and really enjoy the accomplishments you experience.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

Attached Files

Liked by

CBA Member

Boschloper posted this 3 weeks ago

Alfonso:

Welcome to the Cast Bullet Association Forum. The guys here have a great deal of knowledge and they are very willing to share.

Please let us know what types of firearms and what calibers you will be casting for. Also let us know what equipment you already have.

Accuracy equal to factory ammo is pretty easy, it’s when we want better that we pull our hair out and turn into cranky old farts.

Wayne

Attached Files

Standard Member

shootcast posted this 3 weeks ago

I’ve been doing this for a very long time. Wish I knew the correct answer. Finding consistent repeatability is the key. I often had thought that I had a very good load. Returning to the range on another day proved something went wrong. Reading the Lyman manual will give you good pointers. Consistency with your chosen alloy as the book says is definitely your start. I fool around with blending my alloy. Using wheel weights as my base. Adding some tin usually and also Lino. I believe you would be better off buying either Lino or Hardball from a reputable manufacturer. There is some truth to matching pressure with alloy hardness. If your blend changes chances are your results will also. If you decide to go the cheapest route as I do, then weigh your bullets and record the average weight from the the chosen mold. Each time you blend a batch up this bullet weight should be very close to the past pot. Since you don’t know exactly what the actual was to start with, you are only guessing. Even using a single cavity mold can vary greatly by weight depending on alloy, and the temperature of alloy/ mold etc. keeping a consistent temperature and a consistent rhythm while casting will yield better weight control. Experiment with your loading technique. FLS probably will result in to tight of neck. As most dies are made for jacketed bullets. Neck sizing bushing dies may help here. Also many people love Lee collet dies. Whatever works best stick with it. The search seems endless. But this depends again on your definition of accuracy. Normally but not always 2 MOA will come . This isn’t benchrest accuracy. Getting even to 1 MOA may take a very good rifle. Sub MOA you need to talk with our best shooters for advice. It boils down to how much money and time you want to spend. The more you can invest the better your odds. Quality products cost. Reasonable accuracy can be achieved with little money invested. Remember to keep records of exactly how you do things. Sometimes something as simple as a die adjustment can make a difference.

Attached Files

Liked by

Standard Member

OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

Taper bumped bullet fitted perfectly to tapered throat works. Or bumping long bore riding bullets for a more perfect round fit.

Attached Files

Liked by

CBA Member

Shopdog posted this 3 weeks ago

Work on your abilities to make,record,and repeat efficient and effective changes.

Attached Files

Liked by

CBA Regional Director

MarkinEllensburg posted this 3 weeks ago

Trial and error. The bullet must fit the throat seems to be the only universal rule. If you have a 30 caliber the RCBS 30-180-SP just seems to work. Beyond that what I have learned is that powder and primer really matters. What I have not learned is how to choose the perfect powder. Primers are a try and see propitiation. An honest assessment of your abilities is worthwhile. If you don't already have a rifle/ ammo combination that gives you <1 MOA groups, do not expect to get there with cast bullets. In other words, if you are not an accurate shooter with jacketed bullets or rimfire do not expect miracles with cast bullets. It is my firm opinion that bench technique is 85% or higher the determining factor in good cast bullet groups.

Attached Files

Liked by
and 1 others

Standard Member

sghart3578 posted this 3 weeks ago

So much ground to cover but I will add this: if you are serious about developing accurate loads some trial and error will be involved.

Take a lot of notes and document all of your experiments.

You'll thank me later.

Attached Files

CBA Member

Lucky1 posted this 3 weeks ago

Welcome aboard!

The rest have talked about all the important things of fit, alloy, powder etc. But one thing that I have recently helped a beginner with is getting the bullet seated correctly. Cast is quite different from jacketed in that you need to chamfer the inside of the case neck and then expand it properly after resizing. NOE makes some expanders that help this. First part of the expander should be .001 or 002 under the bullet size and the 2nd part is 1 or .002 over so you can set the the bullet in the neck and slide it down until it hits resistance. Then finish seating it like normal. Skipping this step created all kinds of problems for this beginner and accuracy was horribly inconsistent. Cast bullets are much softer and prone to damage than jacketed and this prevents a lot of damage. If we know what you want to shoot, there will be even more advice to help shorten the learning curve regarding bullets or loads in general.

Scott Ingle

Attached Files

Liked by

CBA Board

John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

Mostly good advice above with fit of bullet to throat and bore first and foremost.

Keeping good records as you try competing factors has been mentioned repeatedly above. I agree. But I would add that those records are useless unless you shoot enough shots each time you try a variation. when you are comparing loads (whatever factor is being studied). Don't think you know anything after you have shot 5 or 10 shots with each load. At best you only have a HINT unless one load is two or three times bigger than the other. Twenty shots should be the bare minimum (4-5shot or 2-10 shot groups), for first try, Even then unless the averages are very different you need to repeat to confirm,

Many shooters think they have found something with a few shots fire and will simply case their tails instead of getting closer to the truth.

If you think you have found a significant difference in primers, powders of similar burning rates, very small changes in the load weight, or very small difference in seating depth -- you are probably wrong. At least I have almost never found that such things make a difference in 65 years of CB loading for accuracy. Believing that such thing make a difference in group size are usually the results of not shooting enough groups and/or not repeating the test to see if the results of the first test results can be repeated.

John

Attached Files

Liked by
and 1 others

CBA Regional Director

Tom Acheson posted this 3 weeks ago

Trying very hard to keep this short.

I’ll add to Aaron’s PERSISTENCE…. CONSISTENCY.

And as others have opined….BULLET FIT TO BORE.

Tom

Attached Files

Liked by

Standard Member

steveu posted this 3 weeks ago

Two things that I have found to increase accuracy in my BP rifles was first getting some locking mold handles and second was getting a PID to control my pot temperature. Cheers, Steve

Attached Files

CBA Member

Larry Gibson posted this 3 weeks ago

"Accuracy" is relative to the type of shooting being done. That applies to jacketed bullets as well as cast bullets. The accuracy requirement for the most precision type of shooting requires a bullet that is properly balanced. That applies to jacketed as well as cast. Thus, the first requirement for precision accuracy with a cast bullet is to first learn how to cast bullets that are of as consistent weight with no defects as you can. Once you learn to do that learn to cast the bullets with the same bullets consistently time after time.

Once you can consistently cast excellent bullets the all the other precision reloading techniques apply with a couple nuances necessary for loading cast bullets.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

Liked by

CBA Member

Wm Cook posted this 3 weeks ago

Unfortunately the “how to” of cast accuracy is too broad of a topic to be handled on a thread. Suggestions will pop up faster than a target rich wack a mole table.

I’d recommend finding a mentor through the CBA forum and communicate with that person via e mail on a pace and topic that corresponds to where you are on the learning curve. Finding someone who has the patience, knowledge and communication skills to swap correspondence with you helped me out a lot when I got started.

Then continue to use the forum to ask probing questions about the specific topic you’re currently working on. Example; casting techniques, mold selection, alloy choice, bullet to bore fit, powder selection etc.. Between your efforts, a 3rd party to support and the forum you’ll get a well rounded unbiased education.

Cast accuracy is very achievable and a lot of fun. Shooting subsequent 10 shot groups under a MOA is a real hoot. Bill Cook.

Attached Files

Liked by

Standard Member

OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

What is the best way? Having a good mentor... and owning a good lathe. I've wasted lots of money on moulds that do not work.

Attached Files

CBA Member

Wm Cook posted this 3 weeks ago

Keith, not really sure a lathe would be in my top ten. Space, time availability, skill set might exclude some of us.

That said, I’m envious of your ability to build dies to bump bullets for a more round nose. I would be into it just to compare apples with oranges. Prove the theory one way or the other. Off hand I don’t know the % of BR shooters that bump the nose but I can’t spit out how many.

I thought that I was getting close with a Wilson seating stem, a custom body die and neck bushings but it fell apart when Wilson balked at making a custom stem diameter. It had to be the exact diameter as the conical shape of the Accurate .180 metplat design.

Not sure if Alfonso is still following this thread yet. If he is, maybe he could chip in some details about what he’s working with. Bill Cook.

Attached Files

Standard Member

OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

Compress and fit the bullet before firing. Bore riders can benefit by taper bumping front drive bands and hammering the undersized boreride section larger for more perfect slip fit. Yes hammer bullet at top dead center in taper die. Easy easy easy

Attached Files

Standard Member

OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

PTG makes blank resizing dies in most any caliber, but bore size will have to be fitted to your rifle. PTG also sells tapered throating reamer I have a .310 diameter x 1.5 degree included throating reamer with variable size bore piloti. You will need to make a extractor that fits nose of bullet perfect. This will center the nose while hammering at camover and extracting bullet from die.

Attached Files

Liked by

Standard Member

OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

It is fairly simple to duplicate the nose shapes of ACCURATE MOULDS. I use aluminum rod machined in my small lathe to make extractor that removes bullet after swaging.