Barrel Life

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Bud Hyett posted this 01 December 2025

The best accuracy comes in 1200 to 1800 rounds. Acceptable target accuracy by playing with nose diameter and seating farther out can go 12,000 to 20,000 rounds.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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OU812 posted this 01 December 2025

Going by primer count I have around 5000 rounds shot thru my 223 Remington 700. Lots of cleaning between tests. I now size the bullet bore ride section much larger now from .219 to about .2215. Rifle shoots the longer bearing surface LBT bullet much better now than when throat was new. IMO sometimes throat wear can be a good thing when shooting cast.

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RicinYakima posted this 01 December 2025

I re-barreled my Smith Corona 03A3 in 2010 with a new barrel. It didn't shoot any cast loads well. So I fired 25 rounds of WW2 Armor Piercing ball through it and cleaned it. It shot much better and after a few of hundred linotype bullets I shot an Issue National Championship with it.

If the bullet fits and the gas check stays in the neck, they are still good.

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Wm Cook posted this 01 December 2025

“ IMO sometimes throat wear can be a good thing when shooting cast.”

That may be true. It certainly keeps you busy keeping up with bullet to bore fit on bore riders. Maybe that’s a +1 for using a Spitzer.

Has anyone found things that contribute to throat wear, like maybe Lino vs softer alloy or undersized bullet sizing? Thanks, Bill C

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Bud Hyett posted this 01 December 2025

Has anyone found things that contribute to throat wear, like maybe Lino vs softer alloy or undersized bullet sizing?

No, The number of rounds fired is key. I'm a simple country boy who understands that lead is softer than steel, thus minimal influence. I also understand that hotter powders heat the throat quicker and contribute to faster wear but this is hard to measure.

The number of attributes affecting accuracy are so numerous that a structured experiment determining the largest influence would require so many rounds that the rifle would be worn out before determination.

Keep advancing the bullet as accuracy falls off as stated above is the best answer.

Note: I think one of the slick gun magazine writers was having a slow day, wrote an article that Linotype destroyed barrels, sold it to cover the week's groceries, and convinced some shooters incapable of critical thinking. The real barrel destroyer was the German anti-tank gun that fired a 4400 fps titanium shell. The gun came with 27 rounds of increasing diameter and was sent back for rebarreling at the end of the 27 rounds.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Wm Cook posted this 01 December 2025

“ I think one of the slick gun magazine writers was having a slow day, wrote an article that Linotype destroyed barrels, sold it to cover the week's groceries, and convinced some shooters incapable of critical thinking.”

😆😆😆😆. Thanks for that.

II think it was one of the Loews who wrote in Precision Shooting many decades ago that his jacketed BR barrel started to “come alive” after 1400 rounds. In today’s world, serious jacketed benchrest shooters retire their barrels almost as often as I change rolls of toilet paper. Bill.

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Fiddler posted this 01 December 2025

From my Small Bore and Hi-power days, the 308's and 06's were good for 4500 shots before accuracy dropped. A Small Bore shooter had to replace his Anschutz barrel after a quarter million rounds, this guy kept good records so I believe him. Single based powders are your barrels friend!

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lotech posted this 01 December 2025

Perhaps of little help because I keep no records on how many rounds I fire, but for some perspective...I have Remington 700VS .308 (basically a short-action Sendero before the Sendero was introduced) bought new in 1994. I have fired fewer than 100 round of jacketed bullet ammo through it. This is a cast bullet rifle and I fire approximately 300 rounds through it annually as best I can estimate. That would be about 9300 rounds.

I've used pretty much exclusively (about 95% of the time) an alloy of about 13-14 BHN with 200 grain gas checked bullets at muzzle velocities of 1650-1750 fps. Bullets have been the Eagan MX3-30ARD and the Lyman #314299 (hollow-pointed by Eric Ohlen). I'm not a competitor or accuracy fanatic, but I've fired enough 3/4" 5-shot 100 yards groups that I'd call this rifle accurate for my purpose. I can't see that accuracy has ever deteriorated. I've had to seat bullets way out in this rifle to get even slight bullet engraving since the rifle was new. That hasn't changed.

I have a Ruger 77V .308 (also purchased new) with about 6900 rounds through it using the same inexact estimation criteria as above. Seems I fired five target loads through it years ago using the Sierra 168 MK bullet. Otherwise, I've used the same cast loads already described for the Remington.

I have and I've had a number of other cast bullet rifles in the last forty or so years. My limited and less-than-exact but very enjoyable experience indicates that lightly to moderately loaded cast bullet ammo causes very minimal wear to the throat area of a rifle. I have a Hawkeye bore scope, but have not used it on either rifle in a long time since they continue to shoot well.

I haven't used linotype for anything in a long time and what I used then was worn out lino bought from a scrap dealer. It was not true 22 BHN linotype, more like 16-17 BHN. I have Lyman #2 on hand if I need to shoot faster than 1,800 fps, but that need seldom comes up.

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pat i posted this 01 December 2025

Considering the nature of the beast we're dealing with I'd have a hard time even determining accuracy was falling off. Too many other things could be raising their ugly heads to blame it on the barrel wearing out. When I was at the range a few weeks ago a guy told me he had 4 scopes go bad last summer. Seemed a little far fetched so I just nodded and went about my business. I didn't want to burst his bubble by suggesting maybe it was the guy pulling the trigger so bit my tongue. I'd like to hear Dan Hudson's or Larry Rickertson's thoughts on the barrel life issue.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 01 December 2025

back when the American Rifleman was useful

about 1960 or so

someone reported a barrel life test contrasting military copper alloy jacketed against the wartime steel jacketed variety ..

the steel type was easier on barrels

**********************

interesting

besides, most of the barrel really doesn't wear much anyway, it is highly likely the useful life degradation comes from the gunpowder burning out the throat ... more is worse and hotter flame is even worse.

back in the early days of the CBA, one feller ... Johnson?...reported great success using the smoothly worn middle section of discarded high power barrels ...

i always wondered if he machined receiver adapters as i have seen "shot out " barrels with 4 inches of throat gone. i guess for cast 20 or 18 inches of good barrel is plenty ... and stiffer .

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lotech posted this 01 December 2025

Ken Campbell-

I think I have that article, if I can find it.

But...I think it's throat wear we're talking about here and with cast bullets rather than jacketed. Most of us are convinced that mild to moderate cast loads are far, far easier on throats than full power jacketed loads, but the topic of bore and throat wear is still intriguing.

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Bud Hyett posted this 01 December 2025

A tale of a barrel suddenly giving up. This was Alice Gardner's Savage 12 BVSS .308 Winchester shooting Reloder #7 and a 205 grain Schauf mold using Linotype alloy.

The Washington State Championship was a two-day match. There were two strong contenders for the State Production Rifle Championship at the end of the Saturday. Alice was happy with the rifle and the loads on Saturday,

Sighting in on the first target Sunday morning, the rifle would shoot nines and tens, then a shot in the white sometimes even outside the scoring rings. The morning light and dew conditions were ideal to track the bullet to the target when sitting directly behind the shooter.

The shots going into the ten ring or nine ring were leaving a wake the size of the bullet and you could watch them into the black. The shots going into the white were leaving a wake three or four times this size. You could call the impact point mid-trajectory, there was that much difference.

I told her she had shot up the barrel, worn it out. She didn't understand. I explained what I had observed. Bill Anderson and Mitch Micglassio were helping Alice sight in and concurred with the explanation. Alice shot the Sunday Match and suffered the occasional seven or eight.

Coming home, we experimented with setting the bullet farther out and shooting a bullet with a larger nose by casting at a higher temperature. The results were not what they were before, the barrel was simply worn out. We sent the barrel back to Savage for a new barrel to remain legal for Production class. The new barrel needed a slight load adjustment, but shot very well.

With the number of matches the rifle had shot and the practice sessions, the barrel had at least 12,000 rounds through it. The powders were VARGET and Reloder #7, not high temperature powders heating the chamber excessively. Alice was cleaning the barrel with a two wet patches and a dry patch after each target, not excessive cleaning.

Note: I sent the barreled action back because the stock was bedded and shortened to fit Alice. I did not want Savage to lose that stock. They sent the rifle back in a thumbhole Varminter stock. Now I must build another rifle to use this stock, possibly a ,22-250 or .220 Swift for prairie dogs.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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RicinYakima posted this 01 December 2025

The last time I spoke with Bob Haufschild at the Military Nationals in 2018, he related that his Smith Corona with a 1942 HS barrel, had worn enough to require seating the bullet a full driving band forward after 25,000 rounds of Linotype. I believe he was using A5744 at the time.

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Wilderness posted this 02 December 2025

Possibly irrelevant to target shooting, but the discussion prompted me to measure the throat, or at least the bit of barrel ahead of the chamber, in my M1899 Savage. Rifle is from 1922, but the barrel is a factory replacement .30-30 bought in 1980. Barrel is six groove, lands and grooves of equal width, 12" twist.

When new, the barrel slugged .308" and a Cerrosafe chamber cast seemed to agree as regards the start of the rifling. I never did get a bore measurement but am sure it was more than .300" - the .299" spud of my Tasco Shot Saver is a rattle fit in the Savage but a close fit in my 1949 Marlin 336A .30-30.

Since new I have fired 7,000 full power loads, 2,000 jacketed (Sierra 150 & 170 gns, mostly 748 powder but a couple of hundred LVR) and 5,000 full power cast hunting loads (.312" 175 gn 16 BHN at 2150 fps plus with 748, 2208/Varget, and LVR).

Velocity with 748 & Sierras has fallen away over time (worn barrel or less potent powder?), but grouping remains business as usual with both jacketed and cast.

A friend put his Teslong borescope down the barrel and everything looked good still. No evidence of throat burn.

Pending a proper Cerrosafe job, I drove a soft .312" bullet one bandswidth into the rifling from the chamber end. The groove measurement is .310" - increase of .002" over 7,000 shots. The .312" bullets seem to be handling the situation nicely.

At 200-300 shots per year hunting, I expect barrel wear on this rifle to be someone else's problem.

Edit: A chamber cast has given a more detailed description of what is now a throat. Diameter at start of rifling as per the driven slug is .310", but just ahead of the chamber is .312" - just right for the bullets I am using. The origin of the rifling has moved forward about .2" and presents as a nice clean gradual throat.

You are only as good as your library.

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MP1886 posted this 02 December 2025

Linotype will eat the throat out of your barrel in fast time.

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Ross Smith posted this 02 December 2025

Why?

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lotech posted this 02 December 2025

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as many here, but I'm curious. It seems there would be little or no difference in throat wear based solely on cast bullet hardness. This is aside from the powder charge. Anyone have any indication or factual information that linotype will wear a barrel throat faster than a softer alloy?

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MP1886 posted this 02 December 2025

Why?

Because there's more antimony in it and the antimony crystals in the alloy have sharp edges and the harder alloy supports them better. Use to be a member on the Castboolits forum named bjorn and he was in on that deal where another member that would rebarrel their actions free if they bought the barrel. Well bjorn bought an expensive big name barrel and was shooting the 30 XCB bullet to high velocity and after something like few hundred rounds there was a large measurable difference in his barrels throat. He was warned but didn't heed the warnings. Larry Gibson knows about his, whether he'll talk about it or not is unknown by me. I don't intent this post to start a pissing contest or fight.

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RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2025

If you can find a copy of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, third edition, beginning on page 43, Dennis Marshall has an excellent article on bullet Metallurgy. While most deals with castability, there is a discussion on crystallization and an excellent reference section of lead alloy research.

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Wm Cook posted this 02 December 2025

“ Larry Gibson knows about his, whether he'll talk about it or not is unknown by me. I don't intent this post to start a pissing contest or fight.”

Then, the best way to avoid that is not to openly challenge someone by name.

As I said earlier, I have 1750 shots through this barrel. 99.9% have been bore riders. I’ve bought three each of Accurate’s 210E and 230E molds. Each one larger in size as the throat wear at the beginning of the lands changed. There is no doubt in my mind that when new the bore was at .3011 - .3014. It’s now at .3030. Another inch into the bore the wear is minimal. As it is, the barrel is choked. Tapping a cut off nose from chamber to muzzle shows it tight all the way through. From muzzle to chamber it becomes loose.

Unable to prove, but suspected is that I was sizing too small. As new the pound cast showed a freebore of .3087. I sized to .308 because I’ve had a bad experience with alloy shaving off the face of the freebore when I was sizing large, large nearly “as cast”. No way to prove it, but I believe the burn/temp escaping past the smallish sized bullet harmed my throat. But what do I know. I’m in the 4th quartile on cast accuracy.

Understanding cast accuracy is exciting. But every once in a while you have a moment when things get complicated. Like when you’re half way through straddling across a barbed wire fence and a covey of quail bust but out right next to you. Again, thanks, Bill C

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