Another PB Mold

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  • Last Post 25 October 2023
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pat i. posted this 23 October 2023

Got a new PB mold for my 06 fixed ammo project last week and took it out for the first time today.

The details are Winchester Mdl 670, Caliber 30/06, Accurate 195A bevel base sized .310, 13.5 grains of #9, Federal LR Magnum primers. Javalina lube in the grooves with a light coat of LLA cut 30%with mineral spirits over the top, clip on WWs for the alloy. Average velocity 1410 for the 6 groups, range 100 yards. Fairly decent wind for fall in Illinois

Still trying to figure out why one group is decent and the next one ain't. I think it might be my poor bench technique moving from one target to the next but then again maybe that's just the excuse I'm using at the moment. I marked the mold so I can segregate and index the bullets next time to see if it helps. I'll probably leave the LLA off too since I didn't seem to be getting any leading. I'll update as I go along.

 

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 23 October 2023

Pat, I think that bullet is a winner.  Just tweaking the details.  ("Just", he says!)

Glenn

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pat i. posted this 23 October 2023

Thanks Glenn. I need the encouragement! I was just thinking about it and since I stole the load off the PBB guys I'll steal from some of the gas check BR guys and cut down on the lube. I'll fill one less groove and cut out the alox overcoat. Since I have absolutely no idea how much lube a PB Bullet needs to carry I'll give it a shot. Seems I remember the first thing I did when shooting gas checked bench matches and was having a problem was cut down on the lube and it seemed to help so maybe it'll cross over to this thing......maybe. I kinda believe in lube purging but don't know if it applies to plain base bullets.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 October 2023

pati ... i only shoot PB ..... ...  at 1200-1400 ... i use closer to none than a little bit. ... i just seat them with greasy fingers ...  maybe call them shiny bullets ...

did i mention cast bullets are funny ??? ...   i played with a whole lot of lube and if i waited 10 minutes between groups the first shot went wild ... if i shot real fast the rest of the shots were ok ....  

i quit using a whole lot of lube ... 

ken

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

Thanks Ken. I don't know if I have the guts to go sans lube or do the greasy finger thing but I'll try different amounts and see where it leads me. I started this whole thing to show myself and others it's possible to shoot decent groups without the expense of checks, expensive alloys, and bigger powder charges but fast enough give you a halfway decent chance in the wind. Now for me at least it's morphed into wanting something cheap and easy that'll be competitive in the HNT class. Although throwing money at 5 custom molds looking for the magic one ain't exactly what I'd call cheap but maybe the next guy will get off easy. I buy molds like The 3 Bears. The first one was .970 long and weighed 167 grains. Shot alright at 100 but was off the paper at 200. The next one was 1.140 long and weighed 215 grains. It shot whatever at 100, that means not good, and was tipping like crazy. This one is 1.055 long and weighs 195 grains. And I won't mention the other 2 disasters. Hopefully this one does the job or by the time I'm done I'll have put Tom at Accurate Mold's kid through college.

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

One thing I forgot to mention for us cheapskates. I'm using 1 Lapua case loading at the bench and today was the 214th time it's been shot. I annealed the neck at 140 shots and it's still going strong. Wilson die with a .334 bushing, expanded with a little hand tool I have, and a Lee Loader used to seat the bullet about .050 deep. I use a brass hammer to size the case in the Wilson die and either my hand or the hammer to seat the bullet so no arbor press needed.

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linoww posted this 24 October 2023

I'm going down the same path as Pat.Trying to get a competitive plainbase load for my 30-06 Steyr model M.

Many groups are decent but the stinky wild shots deflate me right after I think I'm getting closer to accuracy.

This weekend I shot a stepped/tapered Accurate Molds 195 bullet with 10-10.5 of CFE Pistol.Most were good but the two groups had a flyer each that made the groups enormous.Whats odd is the wild shots were almost in the same location?

 

but unlike chepsake Pat I'm frivolous and use 5 cases at the bench.I have about 100 shots on each so far.They are old Herters/Norma cases.im using tong tools and a Lee hand press combo to load

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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John Alexander posted this 24 October 2023

When considering how little lube is required, no lube at all should be an option.

I and several other shooters shot a large number of comparison groups of lubed vs unloved bullet. The results were published in Fouling Shot #264.

There was no leading reported in loads under 2,000 fps and in some of the loads/rifle combinations there was no change in accuracy and in others lubed bullets shot somewhat smaller groups.

John

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

Might be the sissy in me but the thought of shooting unlubed bullets give me the vapors. Plus doing it without a check to do a little bore scraping just adds to my tendency to faint at new ideas. I might try it down the road (WAY down the road) but for now a little grease eases my fear.

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delmarskid posted this 24 October 2023

Not a whole bunch of lube on 22’s. I used to carry them around in my pocket when I was a kid. Probably had nothing left by the time I used them.

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pat i. posted this 24 October 2023

All good points but point me to anyone shooting unlubed bullets in cast bullet competition let alone any of the hot shooters. Sounds more like a just wanted to try it to see if it works kinda thing than a this is great and my new way of doing it full time kind of thing. I'll stick with lube no matter if it's just a little.

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Tom Acheson posted this 24 October 2023

I’m in the process of sanding the butt stock of my Remington Rolling Block (1910?), to hopefully eventually match the new fore arm I just purchased from CPA. And then try to find a decent stain. Snooping on the forum, I ran across Pat’s adventures with a plain based bullet. I too use a plain based bullet but in a different rifle than his. 

 

The discussion about quantity of lube got my attention. I never thought too much about the concept of reducing lube. So in preparation for match season 2024, I’ll be messing with reducing the lube in the bullet in the out-of-focus photo.

 

Tom

 

 

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OU812 posted this 25 October 2023

Remember a member named Frnkeore. Plane base bullets were all he shot and he recommended filling lube grooves to max and sizing bands to tight freebore clearance.

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OU812 posted this 25 October 2023

Alloy should be 10 bhn, any harder than that does not work well. Partial neck size for .001 fit in case, Bell the case mouth slightly to prevent shaving, close bell down so there is a slight drag when chambering, 50/50 BW/Alox lube works good, If your not going to use lube grooves, get a smooth sided bullet. All per Frank

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Paul Pollard posted this 25 October 2023

Hey, Pat. Chad and I were out the other day. He was shooting .25 BR PBB with all 4 grooves filled with 75 alox, 25 beeswax. He shot 5 cases and loaded each after shooting a group. He said after returning to the bench, the first shot hit outside the rest of the group. Seems like a barrel warming/conditioning thing.

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Eutectic posted this 25 October 2023

Pat,

I am glad you have Tom's kids covered through college. I am working on getting them through grad school and enjoying every minute of it.

There is no shame in trying different bullets. Even with measuring throats there is still some serendipity involved. Sometimes things just do not work as expected. 

Steve

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pat i. posted this 25 October 2023

What's new Paul. Tell us a little about the rifle and load and how it shot.

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pat i. posted this 25 October 2023

Steve drawing up and ordering new molds is a special way I treat myself. Now I didn't say I was talented at it but probably like when Ray Charles sat at the keys for the very first time banging out God knows what notes it gives me pleasure.

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