Best Way to Use Lee Liquid Alox

  • 25K Views
  • Last Post 23 July 2015
John Alexander posted this 19 July 2012

I recently found that a coating of Lee Liquid Alox improved a CB rifle load that I was trying. I had used it successfully on pistol bullets before but conventionally “lubing” had always seemed to be best for rifle loads.

I used it straight by shaking the bullets around in a pan with a few drops of LLA and letting them “dry” on wax paper. The bullets and loaded rounds are nasty and sticky. Is there a better way. If I remember correctly Ed Harris dilutes it 50-50 with mineral spirits. Onondaga in a recent post of a successful 223 load says he tumbles the bullets (more than once) in something he calls 45:45:10. That is obviously a ratio but the post didn't say what the components were.

What is the best way to use LLA? Is there a way to avoid the sticky bullets?

How do the different ways of diluting or adding other stuff improve things or does diluting just save LLA?

Are competing products better?

Any and all information on this topic would be appreciated. Let's try to get this stuff out of the magic elixir class.

John

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
onondaga posted this 19 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6375>John Alexander:

Here is the correct way to mix 45:45:10 Recluse by the originator: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

 Johnsons Paste Wax and Mineral spirits are used with LLA in the mix. The procedure is easy and has a very important step with heat to remove the volatile solvents and replace them with mineral spirits. That is the key operation for making  the most successful product.

Using the 45:45:10 Recluse can even be further enhanced with a simple warmed application technique developed by a member there named Geargnasher (Ian)

Here is a summary of how I use the 45:45:10 Recluse:

I pre-warm bullets, usually 150-200 bullets, by placing them in an aluminum brownie pan and putting them in my kitchen oven on the “warm ” setting for 5 minutes. The bullets are warmed but not too hot to touch.

I warm the 45:45:10 before application by either putting the bottle of it in hottest tap water while the bullets are warming or by micro waving it 30 seconds at a time till the bottle is warm. Shake vigorously before application.

Application is done in a square container like a milk carton or ice cream container so the rotating to tumble will be aided by the corners of the container. Place the warm bullets in the container and squirt a small amount, about 1/2 teaspoon for 150 bullets.. Tilt the container and bullets about 45 degrees and rotate 60 times.

I dump the lubed bullets onto wax paper to dry, because the bullets and the lube was warmed the lube will be dry and tack free in 5 minutes.

I lube once before sizing/checking with Lee push through dies. After size/checking I tumble again 2 times for rifle bullets.  Plain based rifle bullets with no checks are tumble lubed only twice either “as cast” or  once before and once after sizing . Pistol bullets are done the same.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 19 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6375>John Alexander:

Here is the color difference, these bullets have been lubed with straight LLA diluted with 20% mineral spirits. The bullets were lubed once before sizing/checking and twice after with the straight LLA/ 20% mineral spirits and they are tacky:

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 19 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6375>John Alexander:

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 20 July 2012

 When measuring the JPW do you melt it first so you are dealing with all liquids ? and isn't there a paste wax with Tree in the brand name that has a higher % of carnuba wax then JPW. ??  Also, has anyone to your knowledge ever done a side by side accuracy test between  TL and conventional  lubed bullets.  As a note, anyone going to make some 45/45/10,  I suggest the following, 1. Do it outside. not in a garage or shop OUTSIDE 2. Use an oversize pot where there is a low “loading density” to avoid any boil overs 3. put an Alum. pie pan or tin foil “bowl” under the pot, again to catch any “boil overs” from hitting the heating coil. 4.  The solvent  and it's fumes are very flammable

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 20 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3610>Wayne S:

I measure the JPW hard. The ratios need not be that  exact, just equal parts JPW and LLA and the mineral spirits is added after the JPW and LLA have been melted and heated to evaporate the solvents.

Yes, there has been a lot of shooters comparison tests between tumble lube and pressure lube. Personally, I think the tests are unnecessary for a particular reason. The shooters that have invested a lot of money in Lubrisizers and dies and heaters and specific lubes are generally NOT going to be convinced that anything is equal or better.

Also shooters that do not optimize their bullet fit to throat and bore, or have bores that are not shiny slick for cast bullets and pay no attention to alloy relationship to load pressure are all shooters that belong to a special group. Their research is invalid for comparing bullet lubricants. When the bullets fit right. bore is slick and alloy is right, lube selection is very unimportant. Lead alone is a lubricious metal itself and really doesn't need a lot of help with lube if you have everything else right. 45:45:10 Recluse is a major convenience to the organized , knowledgeable and meticulous cast bullet shooter. Dumbbell cast bullet shooters seldom stumble upon perfect 10 shot groups. They are usually too busy looking for a scapegoat to blame instead of improving their skills.

Wayne, your safety concerns are very real when making 45:45:10 Recluse and common sense is certainly important. Do it outside with electric heat. Adjust heat so you are not boiling over a flammable liquid. It doesn't take a rolling vigorous boiling pot to cook off solvents. Wait till the JPW and LLA cool down before adding the Spirits. This is not kid stuff. Don't put the mix in new containers till is is completely cooled too.

I do this out on my porch and have a fire extinguisher handy. The smell is also HORRID and may cause respiratory distress -  keep your face out of it  and don't breathe the fumes. Again, common sense.

The Recluse lube lasts a long time, there is no need to make a large batch. I have never mixed more than one bottle of LLA with an equal volume of JPW and then 10 % spirits for a batch that yields two new bottles of 45:45:10. I shoot more than 100 Lbs of lead a year and 2 bottles of 45:45:10 lasts me over a year. Mixing and boiling a  quart of the stuff is dangerous and worse than silly in my opinion.

Gary

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 21 July 2012

Gary, Thanks for the explanation and instructions and thanks to Wayne S. for the safety comments. The explanation and pictures by Recluse that you provided a link to were also very informative.

As soon as I get my hands on some Johnson's paste wax, I will mix up a batch and try it.

Do other members know of other modifications to LLA or other tumble lubes on the market that may be of interest?

John

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 21 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3610>Wayne S:

I reviewed the Recluse post on making 45:45:10 tumble lube again. He does use a liquid measurement of the JPW after it is melted and solvents are cooked off.  I haven't done it that way but will put measurement scratch marks in my melting pot to make that easier and give it a try.

The liquid measurement as Recluse mentions will put more Carnuba into the mix than I have been using and that is always a good thing with bullet lubricants. The higher amount of Carnuba will also make the lube even lighter in color too.

I have actually never had a boil over or fire mixing this stuff. I mix such a small batch in a relatively large pot and that  combined with medium low heat for the solvent cook-off has been very safe for me.

Recluse uses a round container for application of the 45:45:10. That is a small point to argue but I completely disagree with that because a square container really does aid in actually getting the bullets to tumble rather than swirl, so , the lube is distributed much more thoroughly. The earliest original basic Lee instructions for their LLA application mentioned a square container for application and that has stuck well with me.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6375>John Alexander: I have seen some praised additives to 45:45:10 along the years One was a post claiming that the addition of a few percent per volume of Marvel Mystery Oil made a difference to increase velocity range of the lube. I can't verify that and have never had any velocity limit problems with 45:45:10 Recluse, but the Marvel Mystery Oil may help for shooters that have not optimized their bullet fit, bore condition and alloy selection when they are seeking high velocity.

Gary

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 22 July 2012

I did some mental research today, digging in the part of my brain I call Hard Drive E.

There was another 2  innovative recipe modifications to 45:45:10 Recluse I recall that I have never tried but are very appealing. The 10% Mineral Spirits in the Formula has been completely substituted with 10% WD40. Hoppe's #9 has also been used in lieu of Mineral  Spirits.

Now WD40 is nearly all petroleum distillates, mineral spirits, a small percentage of rust preventative and a very powerful cover scent that real men need to have around them. WD40 cover scent has also been marketed in men's and women's fragrances because men just love the smell of the stuff. I personally dislike the smell of Hoppe's #9 and would never try it in my tumble lube.

I don't see the harm in substituting WD40 for the mineral spirits in the 45:45:10 Recluse formula at all and don't think it would be detrimental either.

The up-side is that the tumble lube bullet lubricant would then have an improved manly smell.

Gary

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 22 July 2012

 Since WD-40 is mostly Pet. distillates, wouldn't most of it's volume evaporate, leaving more like a 49/49, Might have to pick up a small can and see. Another option to combat the “tackiness” is the do a little   TL in a dry container with a little Motor Mica.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 23 July 2012

Wayne, You may be misunderstanding the directions for 45:45:10. First the solvents are cooked off from the JPW, then the LLA is added and cooked a little. Then the mix is cooled before adding the Mineral Spirits . The Mineral Spirits, or WD40 if you use that, is NOT cooked off just stirred in.

Gary

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 23 July 2012

 I see said the blind man, many thanks :dude:

Attached Files

Dale53 posted this 24 July 2012

This week was my first use of 45-45-10 Recluse bullet lube. It is detailed here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1788449#post1788449

Dale3

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 07 January 2013

Anybody tried ATF in place of mineral spirits? I may have made one of those late night boo-boos. No MS, so I added a little ATF (Type F) to thin the LLA. Dipped a bunch of bullets, they aren't drying. Maybe I should have thought it thru a little more.

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 07 January 2013

Glenn Larson of White Label Lube is selling 45-45-10 by the quart for 15 bucks plus shipping. Here's a link to the thread since it's not on his website yet.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174325-45-45-10-Big-Batch-almost-ready-)

I ordered and received a quart a few weeks back. A quart is probably more than you'll use in a lifetime. You'll save money and time buying it this way.

I made up a batch before I got the premade stuff and it was less sticky than the Lee lube but the Rooster Jacket shot better on the PB bullet I was playing with. Wish someone would bring that back.

Attached Files

Pigslayer posted this 07 January 2013

I have used . . . & still do once in a while use LEE liquid alox. It works well and I really don't have much of a problem with the stickyness, I guess due to my leaving the lubed bullets out on waxed paper in a heated room for several days. Usually in my kitchen (no, I'm not married). I don't like the smell of the stuff . . . at all! I actually like my own bullet lube that I use in my lubrisizers. It is 1 1/2 lbs. filtered beeswax, 1 lb. vaseline, 5% carnuba flakes, 5% Ivory soap & whatever color large crayon that you choose. The hardness is between a SPG Lube & Carnuba Red. In a real cold room, heat should be used but at usual room temperature . . . none is needed. The summer heat does not seem to be a problem with stored lubed bullets. It stays in the lube grooves well and have noticed no leading in either rifle or pistol. Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

Attached Files

Clod Hopper posted this 07 January 2013

I use the 45-45-10 mix only now. I had a lot of trouble with straight LLA not drying and then gumming up the seater die. This gumming of the seater die is no small problem as it will shorten the over all length, thus increasing pressures. To clean the die out, I have to run hot boiling water through it which is a PITA. The 45-45-10 stuff leaves an even coating of the correct thickness.

Dale M. Lock

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 07 January 2013

Several years ago ALL of my local stores were out of JPW, reading on cast boollits there seamed to be a nation wide shortage, and someone suggested TREWAX http://trewax.beaumontproducts.com/floor-care/trewax-paste-wax  so I got a can. there must be more Carnuba  in it as I'm at 40/40/20 and it's still a little tacky.  

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 07 January 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3610>Wayne S: I don't believe upping the ratio on the Mineral Spirits will aid in lessening tackiness. It is the Alox that is the tacky stuff in the mix.

Application method effects tackiness. The thicker the application layer ,the more it will make your bullets tacky. 45:45:10 Recluse and even straight LLA are both surface lubes. The Recluse is vastly less tacky and very quick drying when applied warm with bullets warm also.

Very little of this lube is needed and over application does not improve performance.

I get the least tackiness with a popular method of application. I put my bullets in an aluminum brownie baking pan and turn my electric kitchen oven to warm. Put the bullets in for 5 minutes and they will be almost too hot to handle.

While the bullets are warming I also warm the lube in the microwave.  I nuke the small 4 ounce container with the top spout OPEN for 30 seconds . Take it out and shake . If not warm yet I may nuke it again 30 seconds or even a third time till I definitely feel the container is hot. Hot like hot tap water hot.

I put the warm bullets in my tumbling container and squirt a small amount lube on the bullets and tumble. Now look at the bullets carefully!! They only need to look wet evenly. I tumble them slowly for 1 minute. You should see vapor coming off them if the bullets and lube were warm enough----this is a good thing to see. They shouldn't be darker, just wet. The warmth of the bullets and the lube helps  it distribute the lube much more evenly on the bullets when you tumble them.

If you put enough lube on the bullets that you can see it running on the bullets, you have put at least twice much lube as you should have. They will be darker and they will be tackier when they dry if you had so much lube on tthat it was running.

If you put the right amount on warm, they will be dry, tack free and light in color in 5 minutes. The application controls tackiness. Compare your method to what I have suggested. Less lube and more heat and more tumbling time is likely all you need to do.

Gary

Attached Files

99 Strajght posted this 07 January 2013

I have been using 45-45-10 for about 6 months now and can say it is the best I have ever used for lubing bullets for both rifle and pistol. I just happend to have a 5 gal. bucket of bowling ally wax which says carnuba wax on the label. Works so much better than straight Lee. I found 3 small electric tea pots that work just right for heating and mixing.

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 07 January 2013

Per my above post the lube still isn't dry. I know, it was dumb. I'll wash the ATF off with solvent and start over. Don't use ATF to thin LLA. I seem to remember (now) that it can be diluted with water.

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 07 January 2013

Does anyone have knowledge of a side by side accuracy test between 45/45/10 lube and conventional lube and lubing process using a rifle of proven accuracy ??  Say take 40 bullets; lube and size 20 in a conventional manner, and T/L the other 20 and size with a push through sizer.  load all the same, and shoot two 20 rd. groups.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 07 January 2013

Sounds like a good project for you Wayne, but I trust the 45:45:10 and shoot it with all bullets, all calibers, velocities from subsonic to 2550 fps and each of my rifles has at least one 1 MOA load with the tumble lubed bullets at respectable hunting load levels. I've never had lube failure leading.

Bullet fit is way more important than the lube to me. No lube will compensate for a marginal or small bullet fit in my experience.

A report like that would be interesting, but I'd seriously question any lube failure and blame it on bullet fit, alloy selection or bore finish no matter what the author said. The stuff works for me.

There is plenty of nay saying, whining complaints from shooters that don't have the skill to fit bullets and select alloy and take care of their bores or even shoot well with anything over at the lesser cast bullet forum if you wish to read what they have to say.

Lube selection is also a personal and sometimes artistic thing. I mean that if you don't like the way it looks or the way it is applied, it psychologically won't shoot as well as what you really like if you are prone to being influenced that way.

Gary

Attached Files

mklien posted this 07 January 2013

An alternative to tumble lubing is filling a soda bottle cap of diluted alox and dipping the base of each bullet in the lube and standing them on a baking sheet to dry. This keeps the lube within the loaded case and out of your dies. I do this to every caliber but 22's.

Attached Files

runfiverun posted this 08 January 2013

the atf won't ever dry out. it isn't a solvent or mineral oil based lubricant it's a polyolephin. it's a great barell conditioner.

wayne yes it's been done.

the 45/45/10 lube has several iterations. some has been made with tre-wax,mixed with tre-wax 50-50. bees wax has been added..

you have to absolutly positivly cook off the solvents from the jpw,, period non negotiable. j.d was having the same problems when he was trying to develop the lube. he p.m.'d me about my 3-1 lube i was making using the jpw asking how i got it to dry. that's the first absolute must do. the second is add the mineral spirits real mineral spirits not the “green type". the mineral spirits job is to evaporate which in front of a fan they do quite quickly. this dries the lube. the finished boolits should have a slippery slightly waxy feeling to them. my 2nd iteration of the 45 lube has bees wax,and tre-wax in it, this fills the lube grooves and the pigment in the tre-wax makes it real easy to see on the boolits.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 08 January 2013

Maybe a little humor will help too! Alox is sticky, that is the component that keeps tumble lube on the bullets. The stuff is commercially used as an under coat auto body spray rustproofing with a LONG guarantee, it stays put on metal.

I also believe the vaguely secret proprietary ingredient in Alox comes from the Labrea Tar Pits in California !!!!! Visit there and take a big sniff.

Gary

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 08 January 2013

Thanks Five. The ATF was a brain fart for sure! I have those. Luckily the concoction washed off easily with just hot soapy water and I just got home from Ace with a fresh quart of MS. That late night laboratory stuff is risky, like posting when really really tired or something. Just not a good idea. Back in business. I still like tumbling some bullets, dipping others, and running a lot thru my old Lyman 450. A lot depends on what I'm doing with them or what size die I need if sizing.

Attached Files

fa38 posted this 08 January 2013

If the purpose of the Johnson's paste wax is to supply carnauba wax could you just use carnauba wax and dispense with messing around with Johnson's paste wax??

Or does the Johnson's paste wax add more than carnauba wax to the mix??

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 08 January 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=562>fa38

The JPW adds more than just carnuba. The MSDS on JPW shows quite a list of stuff. The carnuba is the main reason the JPW works well but there are other high carnuba waxes that will work fine too. Any quality neutral shoe shining wax with high carnuba like Esquire, etc. would work OK.

JPW has multiple ingredients that mostly cook off when making 45:45: 10 correctly. There are texturizers, solvents,deluants and driers that work with the wax in JPW other floor waxes and shoe polishes that are similar. I don't need to know the chemistry, personally. Some of that stuff doesn't all boil off when making 45:45:10, so, who is to know if it is magic or not, but it sure does work in the mix as a significant improvement over straight Lee Liquid Alox if you are fixated on color, stink, tackiness and drying time.

Straight Lee Liquid Alox isn't a bad or inferior product either. You can also dilute LLA with MS and it will apply thinner, dry quicker, have  a bit less tack and color. You can heat bullets and LLA to improve flow and decrease drying time significantly. It is a good bullet lubricant.

There will always be people that like Windows XP and LLA better than Windows 8 and 45:45:10 Recluse, it is human.

Gary

Attached Files

99 Strajght posted this 08 January 2013

As far as accuracy is concerned, 45-45-10 is as good or better than straight Lee. My biggest improvement was with the 45 acp which with straight Lee would jam about 1 out of 20 because of lub in the chamber. I have not had a misfire with the 45-45-10. My 223 seems more accurate also.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 08 January 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1575>99 Strajght:

I honestly suspect the lube jamming in your 45ACP with LLA was due to over application. LLA is a surface bullet lube. A frequent error with LLA is trying to get it to completely cover the surfaces inside the lube grooves by applying way more than is needed. LLA is not needed deep into  lube grooves of conventional pressure lube groove bullets.. it won't flow out of the grooves and onto the barrel surface anyway like pressure lube in conventional lube grooves. LLA will do that only a tiny bit with the tiny shallow lube grooves of a tumble lube design bullet. Excess lube on either lube groove design will give the jamming problem you mention with your 45 ACP. I've done the same error myself, years ago with 45 ACP pistol and corrected it.

Only a light coat is needed with either conventional pressure lube grooves or tumble lube grooves because LLA is a surface lube for the whole bullet.

99, again I'll emphasize,  try warming your bullets and warming the tumble lube. This very effectively helps tumbling spread the lube thinly and evenly. The bullets only need to “look” wet when tumbled with the warm lube and warm bullets. Any more,  or any dripping or running is an excess and will do stuff like getting into your chamber excessively on your 45 ACP and getting into your bullet seating die excessively. Additionally, you will get more smoke when firing too. None of the excess helps at all, cut back and warm the lube and bullets.

Attached Files

TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 09 January 2013

SO, if it is a 'surface' lube, should it not work with no-groove bullets?

Attached Files

mklien posted this 09 January 2013

TRK wrote: SO, if it is a 'surface' lube, should it not work with no-groove bullets?

No it won't work. The groves bleed the lube onto the barrel as the bullet travels. A smooth bullet will lose its lube within the first few inches

Attached Files

Pigslayer posted this 09 January 2013

I have read this thread over & over & find it incredibly comprehensive. My problem is that I don't do well with fumes anymore . . . at all! Not that I have respiratory issues, because I don't. I quit smoking over 15 years ago and never looked back. I'm sure that 45-45-10 works very well but I'm not going to make it . . . inside or out. At least I'm not going to cook off solvents. I see that the JPW's biggest asset to the mix is carnuba wax. I have plenty of carnuba flakes that I use in making my lubes for my sizers. Is there a way to make this tumble lube without JPW?? Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 09 January 2013

Pat,

You don't have to make 45:45:10 yourself, it is now available from White Label Lube Company at $15 per quart and $5.60 for shipping in the US.  Email them at [email protected] , or use the quick contact on their website http://www.lsstuff.com/lsstuff>http://www.lsstuff.com/lsstuff . The website is in construction and doesn't show it yet but that product is available now.

http://www.lsstuff.com/45-45-10/45-45-10-01.jpg>http://www.lsstuff.com/45-45-10/45-45-10-01.jpg click link to view product picture.

Gary

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 09 January 2013

Pat like you alox tears my sinuses up although I'll suffer if it works. I've been playing around with some Rooster Jacket but naturally when I did decide to try it and it showed promise I found out it was discontinued. I have some but was looking for a replacement and found this. It's marketed as a “green” floor product and only has coconut soap, water, and carnuba with none of the extras. I have a liter on order to try out. Don't think it'll be any good for those 2000 fps loads but for the light stuff it may be alright. 20 bucks with shipping for 33 oz. Even if it doesn't work I love the smell of coconut so it won't be total loss.

Attached Files

fa38 posted this 09 January 2013

A quart of 45:45:10.  That would probably be a lifetime supply or enough for a bath  B) 

I think I will do it.

Attached Files

CB posted this 09 January 2013

Pigslayer wrote: I have read this thread over & over & find it incredibly comprehensive. My problem is that I don't do well with fumes anymore . . . at all! Not that I have respiratory issues, because I don't. I quit smoking over 15 years ago and never looked back. I'm sure that 45-45-10 works very well but I'm not going to make it . . . inside or out. At least I'm not going to cook off solvents. I see that the JPW's biggest asset to the mix is carnuba wax. I have plenty of carnuba flakes that I use in making my lubes for my sizers. Is there a way to make this tumble lube without JPW?? y Pat

I have experimented with this stuff last summer. JPW has more ingredients in it than Carnuaba Wax. I made a batch of 50/50 LLA/Carnuaba Wax; for me it didn't behave the same or shoot as accurate as the 45/45/10.......

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 09 January 2013

OK you two Pats have me stirred up. I can't resist a magic elixer I am going to order a quart of each. I will be 80 in a month and I figure that a half gallon will be a forty year supply for 22 bullets so I should be good.

Maybe I'll hold off ordering the coconut stuff until Pat has made a trial run with it. You can overdo stockpiling stuff. One quart should hold me until Pat reports.

I wonder why White Label doesn't market it in smaller containers?

John

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 09 January 2013

John if you can wait until the milky stuff gets here and I find a couple of small bottles I'll send you some of each to try out. Shouldn't take too long.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 January 2013

oh sure ! helping a national champion improve his groups !

don't you know that the reason i only get four inch groups is because he has all my center shots ....i only get the left over out-liars, and a few complete liars !

there is only so much knowledge out there, and i didn't get my fair share !

ken; victimized in iowa

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 11 January 2013

Thanks Pat. No hurry.

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 11 January 2013

 A few questions on the T/L  process ? Ok I can see the heat, T/L, size and T/L to coat the DB's after sizing. BUT what is the purpose of the 2nd T/L ? and doesn't heating the bullets before the two T/L steps after sizing  just melt the lube from the first T/L ?? And I'm talking rifle bullets at 1500 to 2000 fps.

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 11 January 2013

Good questions Wayne. I have one to add. Why tumble lube before sizing it will just be scraped off the parts sized. I have never lubed bullets before sizing and never any problems.

Ken, I think you have a good theory going there. How about storing up some of those center hits before the match for when the wind gets really tricky at 200 yards and you really need one -- or a few.

John

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 11 January 2013

Wayne & John:

Actually Lee recommends tumble lubing 3 times for rifle bullets, Once before sizing and twice after. I find that excessive, and the third lube is unnecessary with bullets that fit. 

I've read some use liquid soap on cast bullets before sizing as a sizing lube. However that has to be washed off or adhesion of tumble lube will be poor.

I don't tumble lube to save time, I just like the stuff. I TL once before before sizing and usually just once after. Yes, I warm the TL and the bullets. The lube doesn't melt on warm in the oven for 5 minutes at all. That warming makes the mineral spirits evaporate faster and dry the lube fast on the bullets.

Think about the scraping of the sizing die also. It relocates some of the lube from the bands to the grooves---that is not a bad thing at all, and then the last coat of TL replaces lube to the bands.

Gary

Attached Files

delmarskid1 posted this 12 January 2013

I used to lube and size the regular way and tumble lube later. It worked pretty good.

Attached Files

Wayne S posted this 12 January 2013

Gary, Thank you, that help a lot.  I'm strictly after accuracy out to 200 yds .  One of my tests will be to see if the  nose's twice lubed bullets  help in accuracy on bullets that are not supported  by the lands in conventional lubing.

"AIN'T IT ALWAYS SOMETHING"

Attached Files

castrookie posted this 22 July 2015

Hi gary how you know what is 45% of each and 10% of other how do i do that is there some kind of math on that i like to know how to measure that recipe thats for the 45 45 10 thanks

Attached Files

Brodie posted this 23 July 2015

You take equal amounts of JPW and LLA mix them together, put in a old crocpot outside in the breeze let them cook for an hour or two stirring occasionally, when cool add mineral spirits (or some other non--polar solvent ie. acetone) to about ten percent -by volume - of the stuff you cooked stir and store in a sealable bottle of some sort.

This stuff isn't great laboratory science.  In other words guestimate it.

An even easier recipe I have heard of is to take Johnsons liquid floor wax and lee liquid alox fix together about 40% LLA to 60%Floor wax add a little solvent and shake .  No heating. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

Attached Files

Categories
Search
Popular Tags
This Weeks High Earners
Hot Topics
Close