Best Way to Use Lee Liquid Alox

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  • Last Post 23 July 2015
John Alexander posted this 19 July 2012

I recently found that a coating of Lee Liquid Alox improved a CB rifle load that I was trying. I had used it successfully on pistol bullets before but conventionally “lubing” had always seemed to be best for rifle loads.

I used it straight by shaking the bullets around in a pan with a few drops of LLA and letting them “dry” on wax paper. The bullets and loaded rounds are nasty and sticky. Is there a better way. If I remember correctly Ed Harris dilutes it 50-50 with mineral spirits. Onondaga in a recent post of a successful 223 load says he tumbles the bullets (more than once) in something he calls 45:45:10. That is obviously a ratio but the post didn't say what the components were.

What is the best way to use LLA? Is there a way to avoid the sticky bullets?

How do the different ways of diluting or adding other stuff improve things or does diluting just save LLA?

Are competing products better?

Any and all information on this topic would be appreciated. Let's try to get this stuff out of the magic elixir class.

John

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Brodie posted this 23 July 2015

You take equal amounts of JPW and LLA mix them together, put in a old crocpot outside in the breeze let them cook for an hour or two stirring occasionally, when cool add mineral spirits (or some other non--polar solvent ie. acetone) to about ten percent -by volume - of the stuff you cooked stir and store in a sealable bottle of some sort.

This stuff isn't great laboratory science.  In other words guestimate it.

An even easier recipe I have heard of is to take Johnsons liquid floor wax and lee liquid alox fix together about 40% LLA to 60%Floor wax add a little solvent and shake .  No heating. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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castrookie posted this 22 July 2015

Hi gary how you know what is 45% of each and 10% of other how do i do that is there some kind of math on that i like to know how to measure that recipe thats for the 45 45 10 thanks

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Wayne S posted this 12 January 2013

Gary, Thank you, that help a lot.  I'm strictly after accuracy out to 200 yds .  One of my tests will be to see if the  nose's twice lubed bullets  help in accuracy on bullets that are not supported  by the lands in conventional lubing.

"AIN'T IT ALWAYS SOMETHING"

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delmarskid1 posted this 12 January 2013

I used to lube and size the regular way and tumble lube later. It worked pretty good.

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onondaga posted this 11 January 2013

Wayne & John:

Actually Lee recommends tumble lubing 3 times for rifle bullets, Once before sizing and twice after. I find that excessive, and the third lube is unnecessary with bullets that fit. 

I've read some use liquid soap on cast bullets before sizing as a sizing lube. However that has to be washed off or adhesion of tumble lube will be poor.

I don't tumble lube to save time, I just like the stuff. I TL once before before sizing and usually just once after. Yes, I warm the TL and the bullets. The lube doesn't melt on warm in the oven for 5 minutes at all. That warming makes the mineral spirits evaporate faster and dry the lube fast on the bullets.

Think about the scraping of the sizing die also. It relocates some of the lube from the bands to the grooves---that is not a bad thing at all, and then the last coat of TL replaces lube to the bands.

Gary

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John Alexander posted this 11 January 2013

Good questions Wayne. I have one to add. Why tumble lube before sizing it will just be scraped off the parts sized. I have never lubed bullets before sizing and never any problems.

Ken, I think you have a good theory going there. How about storing up some of those center hits before the match for when the wind gets really tricky at 200 yards and you really need one -- or a few.

John

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Wayne S posted this 11 January 2013

 A few questions on the T/L  process ? Ok I can see the heat, T/L, size and T/L to coat the DB's after sizing. BUT what is the purpose of the 2nd T/L ? and doesn't heating the bullets before the two T/L steps after sizing  just melt the lube from the first T/L ?? And I'm talking rifle bullets at 1500 to 2000 fps.

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John Alexander posted this 11 January 2013

Thanks Pat. No hurry.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 January 2013

oh sure ! helping a national champion improve his groups !

don't you know that the reason i only get four inch groups is because he has all my center shots ....i only get the left over out-liars, and a few complete liars !

there is only so much knowledge out there, and i didn't get my fair share !

ken; victimized in iowa

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pat i. posted this 09 January 2013

John if you can wait until the milky stuff gets here and I find a couple of small bottles I'll send you some of each to try out. Shouldn't take too long.

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John Alexander posted this 09 January 2013

OK you two Pats have me stirred up. I can't resist a magic elixer I am going to order a quart of each. I will be 80 in a month and I figure that a half gallon will be a forty year supply for 22 bullets so I should be good.

Maybe I'll hold off ordering the coconut stuff until Pat has made a trial run with it. You can overdo stockpiling stuff. One quart should hold me until Pat reports.

I wonder why White Label doesn't market it in smaller containers?

John

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CB posted this 09 January 2013

Pigslayer wrote: I have read this thread over & over & find it incredibly comprehensive. My problem is that I don't do well with fumes anymore . . . at all! Not that I have respiratory issues, because I don't. I quit smoking over 15 years ago and never looked back. I'm sure that 45-45-10 works very well but I'm not going to make it . . . inside or out. At least I'm not going to cook off solvents. I see that the JPW's biggest asset to the mix is carnuba wax. I have plenty of carnuba flakes that I use in making my lubes for my sizers. Is there a way to make this tumble lube without JPW?? y Pat

I have experimented with this stuff last summer. JPW has more ingredients in it than Carnuaba Wax. I made a batch of 50/50 LLA/Carnuaba Wax; for me it didn't behave the same or shoot as accurate as the 45/45/10.......

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fa38 posted this 09 January 2013

A quart of 45:45:10.  That would probably be a lifetime supply or enough for a bath  B) 

I think I will do it.

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pat i. posted this 09 January 2013

Pat like you alox tears my sinuses up although I'll suffer if it works. I've been playing around with some Rooster Jacket but naturally when I did decide to try it and it showed promise I found out it was discontinued. I have some but was looking for a replacement and found this. It's marketed as a “green” floor product and only has coconut soap, water, and carnuba with none of the extras. I have a liter on order to try out. Don't think it'll be any good for those 2000 fps loads but for the light stuff it may be alright. 20 bucks with shipping for 33 oz. Even if it doesn't work I love the smell of coconut so it won't be total loss.

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onondaga posted this 09 January 2013

Pat,

You don't have to make 45:45:10 yourself, it is now available from White Label Lube Company at $15 per quart and $5.60 for shipping in the US.  Email them at [email protected] , or use the quick contact on their website http://www.lsstuff.com/lsstuff>http://www.lsstuff.com/lsstuff . The website is in construction and doesn't show it yet but that product is available now.

http://www.lsstuff.com/45-45-10/45-45-10-01.jpg>http://www.lsstuff.com/45-45-10/45-45-10-01.jpg click link to view product picture.

Gary

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Pigslayer posted this 09 January 2013

I have read this thread over & over & find it incredibly comprehensive. My problem is that I don't do well with fumes anymore . . . at all! Not that I have respiratory issues, because I don't. I quit smoking over 15 years ago and never looked back. I'm sure that 45-45-10 works very well but I'm not going to make it . . . inside or out. At least I'm not going to cook off solvents. I see that the JPW's biggest asset to the mix is carnuba wax. I have plenty of carnuba flakes that I use in making my lubes for my sizers. Is there a way to make this tumble lube without JPW?? Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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mklien posted this 09 January 2013

TRK wrote: SO, if it is a 'surface' lube, should it not work with no-groove bullets?

No it won't work. The groves bleed the lube onto the barrel as the bullet travels. A smooth bullet will lose its lube within the first few inches

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 09 January 2013

SO, if it is a 'surface' lube, should it not work with no-groove bullets?

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onondaga posted this 08 January 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1575>99 Strajght:

I honestly suspect the lube jamming in your 45ACP with LLA was due to over application. LLA is a surface bullet lube. A frequent error with LLA is trying to get it to completely cover the surfaces inside the lube grooves by applying way more than is needed. LLA is not needed deep into  lube grooves of conventional pressure lube groove bullets.. it won't flow out of the grooves and onto the barrel surface anyway like pressure lube in conventional lube grooves. LLA will do that only a tiny bit with the tiny shallow lube grooves of a tumble lube design bullet. Excess lube on either lube groove design will give the jamming problem you mention with your 45 ACP. I've done the same error myself, years ago with 45 ACP pistol and corrected it.

Only a light coat is needed with either conventional pressure lube grooves or tumble lube grooves because LLA is a surface lube for the whole bullet.

99, again I'll emphasize,  try warming your bullets and warming the tumble lube. This very effectively helps tumbling spread the lube thinly and evenly. The bullets only need to “look” wet when tumbled with the warm lube and warm bullets. Any more,  or any dripping or running is an excess and will do stuff like getting into your chamber excessively on your 45 ACP and getting into your bullet seating die excessively. Additionally, you will get more smoke when firing too. None of the excess helps at all, cut back and warm the lube and bullets.

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99 Strajght posted this 08 January 2013

As far as accuracy is concerned, 45-45-10 is as good or better than straight Lee. My biggest improvement was with the 45 acp which with straight Lee would jam about 1 out of 20 because of lub in the chamber. I have not had a misfire with the 45-45-10. My 223 seems more accurate also.

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