Gas Check

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  • Last Post 19 July 2011
1kshooter posted this 26 May 2011

I am new to the world of G/C and i was just wondering how tight they should be attached to the bullet?

I am using a lee bullet sizer and I only had one RCBS check to try..attched to base and put through sizer...and I can turn it my hand (fingers) and would be able to pop it off with a fingernail. is this normal?

Thanks for your time!

Jonathan

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6pt-sika posted this 26 May 2011

I get them like that and they shoot okay for me .

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1kshooter posted this 26 May 2011

oh ok thanks , I am going to order some of the aluminium gas checks have you ever tried them?

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6pt-sika posted this 26 May 2011

1kshooter wrote: oh ok thanks , I am going to order some of the aluminium gas checks have you ever tried them? Nope , just Lyman , Hornady and Gator checks .

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1kshooter posted this 26 May 2011

Ok thanks Bro!

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James Ball posted this 26 May 2011

Get the gas check to fit as tight as possable.otherwise it might fly off in flite.modifi the mold if nessary for the base of the bullet tobe large enough for the check tobe a snap on fit.make bullets as flat as possable on the bottem befor installing the check.put a small file on the bench,set bullet on top of the file,pull the file from under the bullet until its square on the bottem.then put on the check.size the bullet too the size that fits your gun.weight the bullets,then lube with a die 1thousants bigger than the size that you used to size the bullet.should give good results.works for me.James Ball 

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1kshooter posted this 26 May 2011

My gun likes .458-.461 ...the new bullets are .457..I hope that with gas checks that they will be ok in my gun!

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PETE posted this 27 May 2011

The trouble with gaschecks is, in my experience, they don't stay on. I have had to make a shield for the front sensor of my chronograph as that sensor was getting beat up with gc's. Some even embedding in it. I have even seen on two occassions gc's stuck into the target backing board at 100 yds. This flying off anywhere from the muzzle to the target can't be helping accuracy any. So I'm not a great fan of them and would much prefer shooting PPB.

Pete

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6pt-sika posted this 27 May 2011

To each his own , but for my own use I've seen no great detrement in accuracy from the GC bullets and I am sure some of my checks fly off somewhere between the muzzle and the objective ( IE the target or animal) .

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PETE posted this 27 May 2011

6pt,

I can't fault your thinking as a lot of people will agree with you. In fact in the SS game they think a little tipping doesn't hurt accuracy.

But I tend to disagree with both points. How do you, or they, know this for a fact if you don't know how the accuracy would be if these factors weren't included? Say... Take one of your gc bullets that you know the accuracy of and have it made into a PB one.

I look at it as how can anything that changes the flight of the bullet, even slightly, be good?

You've said in the past that you'd like to see cast bullet accuracy in the .4's. I assume you get the CBA magazine “Fouling Shot". If so look at the match results from the different clubs. You will usually see that the PBB shooters are at the top of the lists, or very close to it. Of course many factors determine the winner but if that's the case then only good shooters shoot PBB.

I will be trying to prove this GC point sometime this year... hopefully.... as I have a Lyman 225415 GC mould that's been converted over to a PBB. Should be an interesting line of experiments.

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6pt-sika posted this 27 May 2011

PETE wrote: Take one of your gc bullets that you know the accuracy of and have it made into a PB one.

I look at it as how can anything that changes the flight of the bullet, even slightly, be good?

You've said in the past that you'd like to see cast bullet accuracy in the .4's. I assume you get the CBA magazine “Fouling Shot". If so look at the match results from the different clubs. You will usually see that the PBB shooters are at the top of the lists, or very close to it. In the rifles I shoot cast I push the bullet as hard as I would a jacketed bullet , so I expect PB would lead a bit in my 444's and 45-70's !

 

I never said I'd like to see cast bullet accuracy in the .4's I said I was used to seeing  222's with jacketed bullets shooting in the .4” I had wrongly assumed the cast bullet would do the same .

As to the plain base results in the FS , I've watched those for a number of years now . And I notice many times that the PB guys will outshoot the UNL guys .

 

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PETE posted this 27 May 2011

6pt,

My mistake in thinking you might have meant .4” groups for cast rather than jacketed. I didn't check the back messages as I should have. Sometimes it gets hard to tell whether your here for the cast bullet info and passing on of information on them or doing the same for jacketed bullets.

Pete

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6pt-sika posted this 27 May 2011

PETE wrote: 6pt,

My mistake in thinking you might have meant .4” groups for cast rather than jacketed. I didn't check the back messages as I should have. Sometimes it gets hard to tell whether your here for the cast bullet info and passing on of information on them or doing the same for jacketed bullets.

Pete

I only shoot cast bullets at the present in 444's and 45-70's .

I have a schuetzen 8.15x46R and have intentions of eventually trying to get that one going to suit me with a cast ring bullet .

Used to cast and load for about 50 different cartridges in variouse lever actions . Now I've paired it down to my present accumulation of 444's and a 45-70 .

All the bolt actions and Ruger #1's I possess are loaded with jacketed .

As to passing on info I don't have a problem sharing info with folks for either .

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1kshooter posted this 27 May 2011

would you thinks I am out in left field thinking that I will be able to getok accuracy with a gas checked bullet that it a tad undersized for my barrel...I am thinking that the G/c will make up for a thou or two of slack in the bullet?

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hunterspistol posted this 28 May 2011

    No sir, not out in left field.  The gas check places the force more forward into the center of the bullet, farther ahead of the base.  The elasticity of the lead, what little that may be, allows it to swell out some on the driving bands.  So, it isn't impossible at all.

    Ron

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CB posted this 28 May 2011

PETE wrote: 6pt,

You've said in the past that you'd like to see cast bullet accuracy in the .4's. I assume you get the CBA magazine “Fouling Shot". If so look at the match results from the different clubs. You will usually see that the PBB shooters are at the top of the lists, or very close to it. Of course many factors determine the winner but if that's the case then only good shooters shoot PBB. *****************************************************The accuracy of the PBB shooters isn't because they are using plain-base cast bullets. It's because they are using inherently accurate single-shot custom-made actions and most all use a use a breech seating tool to perfectly align each cb into the bore of their custom made barrels. (We are competeing with fixed ammunition)

For example, if you look at the 2006 National Tournament results, the PBB shooters were out-scored by the other 3 major classes. What happened to plain-base accuracy there? If you look at the CBA Match Records you will see the PBB records fall just short of the HVY and UnR rifle classes. Your proof is already in competition precedence.

Gas check CBs serve a purpose other than accuracy. Your experirment will be interesting, though in itself not proving us and all other gascheck shooters wrong.............DanW

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PETE posted this 28 May 2011

Dan,

Your points are well taken. Would have to look it up but there is one shooter that uses PBB in fixed ammo. I'll agree that most of the PBB shooters use basically custom guns, but there are a few shooting basically old new made SS's in .32/40 and .32/20 and they do very well.

I have nothing against GC bullets. Until I play around with PB bullets in a bolt gun all my experience with PBB bullets has been with SS's and all my experience with GC's has been with bolt guns.

I would say tho that the shooters at the Nationals are the best shooters and not the run of the mill everyday club match and Postal shooter. Many that might show what PBB bullets can do can't afford the trip to the Nationals. As you know the closest place for me to shoot competition is over at Windhill which is 3 1/2 or 4 hours away. To old to make that round trip in one day and shoot a match too. I suspect there are many in the same boat I am, and it's why the Postals are popular.

I also agree that any experiments I do with PBB bullets in a bolt gun will probably not prove a thing. That's why I probably won't post any of the results as I won't when duplicating some work a friend and another guy out in Calif. who are pushing them well over 2000 fps with no Leading. Plus they get those infamous .4” and .3” groups with the .22's on a regular basis. From my postings on the .222 there doesn't seem to be any interest in shooting them other than at 50 yds. or with jacketed bullets.

Well... Enuf whining on my part. Have a good day!

Pete

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6pt-sika posted this 28 May 2011

PETE wrote: 6pt,

 I assume you get the CBA magazine “Fouling Shot".  

I “assume” as well that since you get that magazine , that you've read or atleast seen my articles on the Ranch Dog series of bullet molds and a couple other articles on Marlin based rounds I wrote .

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PETE posted this 29 May 2011

6pt

Nope! Sorry to say I haven't. To be truthful I rarely read much of anything in the “Fouling Shot unless I see an article that catches my eye by someone who I know knows what they are talking about. That and what's going on in the different local and Postal Matches.

Just like on here. Someone starts a topic and pretty soon it degenerates into something completely different than what the author is looking for. I guess everyone wants to show off what they know even if it doesn't pertain to the subject at hand. Just like on my .222 thread. It soon degenerated into what “my” Hornet could do at 50 yds. and what my jacketed bullets could do. I was, and am, interested in what people are doing with the .222 at 100 yds. with cast bullets. The rest is just Bull.

Pete

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6pt-sika posted this 29 May 2011

PETE wrote: 6pt

Nope! Sorry to say I haven't. To be truthful I rarely read much of anything in the “Fouling Shot unless I see an article that catches my eye by someone who I know knows what they are talking about. That and what's going on in the different local and Postal Matches.

Just like on here. Someone starts a topic and pretty soon it degenerates into something completely different than what the author is looking for. I guess everyone wants to show off what they know even if it doesn't pertain to the subject at hand. Just like on my .222 thread. It soon degenerated into what “my” Hornet could do at 50 yds. and what my jacketed bullets could do. I was, and am, interested in what people are doing with the .222 at 100 yds. with cast bullets. The rest is just Bull.

Pete

"Bull” , hmmmm I'll have to remmember that one when I read any of your other replies to me or others .

Well no time for anymore of my “Bull” (as you put it) !

Time to watch the Indy 500 and later the Charlotte race !

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CB posted this 30 May 2011

Pete

Claiming that something is best or that something is better than another isn't much of a discussion, but hearing what results you get with your 222 is. Guess the lack of interest in the 222 is more than likely because of its lesser degree of popularity these days, not in your desire to see what it can do with CBs. So keep us informed on your experiences with it.

I think the lesser degree of interests shooting the 22s with CBs overal is that there is so many variables in chamber dimensions and bore size and twist rates in those 22s. Not much of a standard in the industry. Then also there isn't much of a choice for a factory mold with a good match grade design. But like your idea, plain-base CBs may shoot better in the 22s since the gas-check is harder to attach and fragile to alignment while loading and handling, causing much frustration for the shooter............DanW

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PETE posted this 01 June 2011

Dan,

I didn't mean to leave the impression that either the bc or PBB is the best,just pointing out some problems I've found with gc's that I haven't found with PBB.

I wasn't aware that the. 222 Rem. had dim. problems.

Whether any .22 will ever be able to compete with a. 30 cal. is questionable.

As for moulds I have access to a PPB cherry that has been used in testing that has shot many sub 1"groups at 100 yes. I'll agree that finding a bc mould will be difficult.

As for posting further results....... I'll have to think about it if there's no interestand not much else besides comments that are irrelevant.

Sadly I know several knowledgeable people who won't post here or on any other Forum for the same reason. To be blunt it appears as tho many just want to see their names up “in lights” so to speak whether their comments are relevant or not.

Well see the range is about mowed so back to shooting!

Pete

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Frontsite posted this 19 July 2011

Hi all, Looks like a fuss has started over whats better again. Ya know, when I stated this shoot'in cast stuff I was after the “one hole” group too but as time went on I discovered a boat load of frustration and lost out on the fun and the commaradare of shooting like minded with shooters.

Now, each Saturday at the local range, a gathering of five or six of us shoot cast bullets with the occasional person joining in with what ever. All of it to have a good time and try to “pop” a gateraide bottle at anywhere from 50 yards to 200 yards. We even have the steel targets out to 500 meters, so we are a little touchy about what gets shot at them at close range. We shoot off hand 95% of the time so to challenge the shooter rather than equipment alone.

We share the wealth of knowledge of most everything shooting related and which beer is better but no one is offended if another drinks “cow whiz” rather than Bud Lite.

Point is, we are enjoying the activity and each others accomplishment. Heck, one guy shoots baseballs at 100 yards with a 45-70 with bullets that I'd throw back into the pot. (All kinds of wrinkles and voids, but he can shoot too!) I'v watched the guy bust rams and chicken at 500 meters with amazing regularity with his 45-70 and his nasty looking bullets. I'm still working on hitting chickens at 200 with my old Marlin 30-30 and I'm kinda fussy about my slugs. We each have our own thoughts on what works for making the shot. Maybe what works for some will work for me too, then maybe not. I happen to have success with my alum. checks. Bill or Kent thinks their “junk", but I hit what I'm shooting at if I do my part.

We cheer the the person (we have a lady or two that show up too) who has shot all morning at at a gaterade bottle at 50 meters with a box of 50, and hit it, just as loud at the guy that busts a chicken at 500.

Do I still get frustrated with my cast bullets quality, yes, but I have a boat load of fun shooting what I have produced especially when another fella shows up and says “whatcha' shootin” and “can I try that".

If you need to have the bench rest, great! you need to have the one hole group, great. Cowboy action, great. “plinking", great. Just don't overlook the fun and the adventure of getting someone else involved in what I consider a great activity. What we do is getting politically incorrect so we don't need to alienate anyone but to involve them and educate. Be safe above all else.

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