Cast boolets for 9mm

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  • Last Post 31 March 2010
grumpy39 posted this 28 March 2010

I have a Sig P226 9mm with a greeve Dia. of .3572. If boolits are to be .001 larger than groove Dia. then I need to cast to .359 or .360 and size down to .358. If this correct I have to cast a 38 boolit because there are no such molds to do this in 9mm.All the 38 cast boolits have a narrow  crimp groove for a roll crimp. I need to taper crimp but the lands on 38 molds are too narrow.I looked at all the companys molds and I don't see what I think I need. Help

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giorgio de galleani posted this 28 March 2010

You cannot know what diameter bullets any mould will produce,before casting them with your alloy,temperature and casting technique.

You ha ve to cast them and then measure them.

If your bore is .3572,ok, let it be,as bore diameters is meaningless.Check the Throat diameter,if a throat is present,you bullets should enter this throat without effort.

Otherwise the largest bullet diameter that feeds in your chamber without offering resistance, will be OK

Your idea to cast 359 bullets to be able to  size them to .358 is a little  wrong,please take no offence,

Your cast bullet fit ideology,in mi opinion comes from the propaganda manual  of someone who is trying to sell you oversize moulds and a costly sizing machine,with  H&I dies.You will spend a lot of money and time,.

Accurate bullets should be of the correct diameters as cast,and usually sizing is detrimental to accuracy.They  should Just need lubing.

On a tight budget I use Lee tumble lube 9 mm tc bullet,lubed and loaded as it drops from the mould ,if it bulges the cased too much,pass the rounds in the Lee Factory crimp die.Use the lightest load that cycles the action. 

I too was for many years was pushed on this wrong path,of sizing .oo1 over groove diametrs and it cost me  much money and frustrations. 

Modern made european 9 mm pistols  usually like 357 sized bullets,while old WWII used guns like 358.

Most important in the short 9x19 case is the lenght and form of the nose of the bullet,it has to feed smoothly,allow easy chambering with a locked breech,and all with no  undue powder  compression.

I have a Browning 35 HP and a ruger 9  carbine ,and they are not my most accurate gus.As long as they cycle and feed correctly I am happy, I use the pistol for the steel challenge, whose accuracy level is easy reached and a sedate power factor of 120 is requested.

As 9x21 brass is commonly collected at my shooting club free of charge,I can light heartedly abandon the brass at the matches ,losing 200 45ACP at each match,,is unbearable to me.And bullets,powder and primers cost less than big bore pistols.

In my opinion the lower  accuracy level obtainable with 9mm pistols is that they work at a pressure higher than the venerable 45AUTO( almost double)and often they have a too steep rifling twist.

I would like to hear opinions of shooters using the fashonable and ubiquitous 40 S&W cartridge.

I am ,in theese days testing the accuracy of two pistol caliber auto carbines I have in 9 and 45 auto,and My present impression is  they are less accurate than my leveracton carbines in revolver caliber.

But,not willing to offend anybody,I am ready to change my opinions,if new facts are shown to me.

Look at my silver darlings,in 38 and 45, I use the tumble lube for training and the traditional lube one for matches,

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giorgio de galleani posted this 28 March 2010

Theese are not very difficult targets,everybody shoots 357 cast commercial bullets,your miser partner uses cast bullets.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 28 March 2010

This stage is too wonderful,I dream it at night,31 plates 31,and I killed them with an acp  S&W revolver with full moon clips,Next match I'll use my Browning HP with three 12 round magazines.

12 rounds ,as many as the Apostles.

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Vassal posted this 28 March 2010

Nice shooting course! The landcsape/Flora looks incredible. Like a soggy little gunpowder garden. I am awed by your statment that 45 is more accurate than 9mm. I don't disagree, or have enough info to have an opinion, but it does suprise me a bit. I stay away from 45 because it is so slow.

Talking about bore diameter, cast and 9mm. I was SHOCKED the first time I recovered a Lyman Devestator 9mm cast bullet. WHen shot with powerful loads (and soft lead) the ENTIRE bevel base was flattened. If you see how much bevel they begin with you wil appreciate the pressure involved. I can even see little round indentations from the powder in the base of the bullet!! I would take a pic but my camera is so poor the detail would likely be lost anyway.------The point is that 9mm will obturate a great deal to seal the bore.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=505491>http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=505491

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Edubya posted this 28 March 2010

grumpy39 wrote: I have a Sig P226 9mm with a greeve Dia. of .3572. If boolits are to be .001 larger than groove Dia. then I need to cast to .359 or .360 and size down to .358. If this correct I have to cast a 38 boolit because there are no such molds to do this in 9mm.All the 38 cast boolits have a narrow  crimp groove for a roll crimp. I need to taper crimp but the lands on 38 molds are too narrow.I looked at all the companys molds and I don't see what I think I need.

Help Grumpy, I enjoyed reading giorgio's posts so much that I forgot what you question was. I do agree with him that you must cast first to know for sure what the mould will actually cast. You can also enlarge your mold by applying a little H-VAC tape on the face of the mould. This will stay for a while as it is made for extreme temps. You might decide to make it more permanant after a little while and this can be done by lapping the mould. All of this information can be found on the CastBoolits site under a heading of “Leementing". Good luck, EW

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hunterspistol posted this 28 March 2010

     The sizing process for 9mm is nothing to be afraid of.  The raw bullets that I dropped from a Lyman Devastator and an RCBS RNTG in 124 grain all seem to be .360.  Using a Lyman 4500 I sized them to .355.  Using light oil and mica to start until the heated lube takes over helps.  Mostly, we are talking about 1/1000ths of a inch, they are small increments.

     The real danger in working with a 9mm is that the tiny case builds pressure rapidly especially when seating a cast bullet deeper than a hollow-based jacketed round.  Care must be taken when the bullet length exceeds that of a jacketed bullet.  I did end up pulling bullets on the high end when working with the faster twist of a TC Contender(1:12").  Then, I dropped the same round in an automatic, a S&W 5906 (1:18.35") and it thought they were candy! No recoil, no pressure. 

     My advice would be to work up a load slowly, using one/tenth grain increments in powder and check for the smallest group that cycles your action. There are 9mm molds out there, made by the major manufacturers, RCBS being one of them. The sizing isn't all that rough.

Ron      The two on the right are 9s, 124 RNTG and a loaded Devastator.

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Ranch Dog posted this 29 March 2010

I designed a bullet to fit the needs of my 9mm and had Lee cut them via a special order.

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Firearms/JANine/Images/Ammopileofbullets01.jpg

I wanted a “heavy” bullet that fit the step and throat of my pistol well, used micro-bands for tumble lubing, and had a large meplat. What I have is a http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Ranch_Dog_Molds/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/TLC356-135-RF/index.html>TL356-135-RF. The pistol in the image isn't my Glock, I wanted an aftermarket non-poylgonal barrel but after the 18 months of waiting through the BHO inspired surge in the shooting industry, I gave up and bought the cheapest 9mm I could find on my gun store's counter. The pistol in the picture is a Jimenez Arms JA-Nine. This topic is about bullets but the pistol has been probably one of the best purchases I've made in a firearm. It had the barrel I wanted, shoots cast bullets very well, and it cost less than a new barrel for my Glock.

This pistol spurred my interest in this line of firearms and I wanted to work with a heavy bullet for a 380 Auto. I purchase both the JA-380 (pocket pistol) and the JA-LC380 and worked on a bullet for them. I came up with a http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Ranch_Dog_Molds/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/TLC358-125-RF/index.html>TL358-125-RF, a 125-grain bullet that shoots extremely well from both of these 380 Autos.

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/TL358125RF/Images/380AutoFatBoy.jpg

  The cartridges on each end have the same bullet, the TL358-125-RF, but the cartridge on the right is seated deeper to meet the confines of the the pocket pistols magazine (JA-380). This brings up another point if you work on a special order mold. Be sure to look at the dimensions and angles experienced as the cartridge travels from magazine, up the ramp, to the chamber. It would not be good to pay the cost of the special order to find out that your bullet cannot make it to the chamber! The JA-LC380 is actually sized .357” (die from a Lee L&S Kit) to meet the requirements of that firearm. The JAs are what they are but they do an excellent job of punching holes and flipping steel.

Last September, I actually used the little JA-380 to defend myself while walking a Hahn (census) line (I'm a wildlife manager). The week prior I had had some problems toward the end of the line with a group of very large boar hogs. It was hot and I didn't want to carry a rifle so I just holstered the JA-380. Sure enough, at the end of the, I surprised a very large boar (surprised myself too!). He just spun and came at me so I drew and shot him in the head with the 125-grain bullet. In a self defense role, you will be surprised how quite the 380 Auto sounds especially when you are figuring you need something more! The bullet struck him on the side of the face and traveled down his neck giving him full impact to the chest. He stopped in his tracks, turned and walked away on shaky legs. I kept walking because it was getting dark and my ride was waiting at the end of the line. A couple of days later I noticed the buzzards working the spot where I shot him so I guess he had succumbed to the 380 Auto. I'm sure not many hogs have done that!

I don't use published load data to work with these bullets, I use QuickLOAD.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 29 March 2010

Very clever bullet indeed,How would you design it for my 9x21 Browning HP ,that is a longer  cartridge  than   your a 9x19 Luger pistol ?

 

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Ranch Dog posted this 29 March 2010

giorgio de galleani wrote: Very clever bullet indeed,How would you design it for my 9x21 Browning HP ,that is a longer  cartridge  than   your a 9x19 Luger pistol ?

 

It is hard to say giorgio without starting from a chamber cast plus the dimensions of getting the bullet from magazine into the chamber.

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grumpy39 posted this 31 March 2010

:fireThanks your bullets look good but I was led to believe you can't put a tapet crimp on a bullet with such a small land. You say that is not a problem correct. Thanks for responding

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 31 March 2010

Hi.. por ejemple, I had scavenged a mold, 2 or 3 cavity, Cramer, which cast a nice .360 bullet ...  now gone, traded or sold for something else I cannot remember... but a very nice mold that would have been perfect for your useage.

Of course, whether it would have been accurate, fed thru your gun, etc. etc. is another matter ... maybe a dozen different matters, but then that is some of the fun/pain of it all.


BTW, I broke Rule 1A:  never sell, give away, or trade off an odd rifle or mold ... 


As a thought, Lee makes a Makarov mold which casts real oversize ( but lightweight ) bullets ...   with a sanded out Lee push thru sizer die, I would bet that you could get a fat bullet for your experiments.  Oh, if you screw up in resizing a Lee push thru die, in your case I will buy it from you, and just re-bore it and use it as a die body in some of my own unlikely-to-suceed Frankensteinian attempts to end run around logical load development.

regards, ken campbell, deltawerkes

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 31 March 2010


” RD::   I surprised a very large boar (surprised myself too!). He just spun and came at me so I drew and shot him in the head with the 125-grain bullet. In a self defense role, you will be surprised how quite the 380 Auto sounds especially when you are figuring you need something more! "

Har Har, Dang, that's funny, especially that you survived    ... reminds me of me a kid on a hog farm... we had a very mean Duroc Boar, I always carried my Ruger .22 auto when around him, and never took my eye off him .....  he finally climbed up by dad's bib overalls one evening... Dad stuffed a 5 gallon bucket over the Boars head and ran for the gate .... heh heh, dang that was funny, after checking for slashes and gouges ....  That Little Piggy Went to Market, as an old kid's poem went.

Great story, RanchDog ken campbell, iowa

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pascalp posted this 31 March 2010

I like Lee 358-105-SWC (sized .356 , crimp in the front driving band) Feed well and accurate in my 1911

http://pascalp2.free.fr/images/sti/%2368mini-%2368P1010349cut600.jpg Side by side #68 and 358-105-SWC (AKA mini #68). No crimp, for the pic I just made 2 dummy rounds just seated.

A pleasure to cast with a 6 banger.

For me, +.001” overbore was successfull, speaking of pistols and rifles.

Wheelgun need more attention as throat and barrel are concerned, this is another story

9mm have no reason not to be accurate when a good pistol feed with right ammo are in the hand of a capable shooter. 

 

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