Cast bullets, bullet lube and Glocks

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Last Post 01 August 2010

Standard Member

cookselk posted this 26 October 2009

I know that many people claim that shooting cast bullets in Glocks is Verbotten but there are many that say no problem, some say you can get away with it in a 9mm but don't do it in a 40. I'm guessing the truth may be someplace in between.

I recently purchased a Star sizer (love it!) and it came with a tube of Javelina alox bullet lube so I went ahead and used it up. Sticky, smelly and downright hard to work with as far as loading in my press is concerned. I lubed up a bunch of 153 gr. Lee RN 38 super bullets and loaded them in my 9mm trying to duplicate my 147 gr. jacketed load. I was a little worried about shooting them in the Glock so I fired them very sparingly in the factory barreled M17 and M26 and shot the rest up in my Lone Wolf barreled M34.

I was rewarded with excellent groups and the real surprise came when it came time to clean the barrel. In the past I had used Thompson Blue Angel and would see some leading. I haven't tried the thompson lubed bullets in my 17 yet but I was impressed with the Javelina lube. I ran a clean patch through the barrel and then brushed. There was no initial resistance which changed to smooth after several brush strokes. It was smooth from the begining. One or two passes with the brush eliminated any streaks and the barrel was clean with no signs of fouling.

Is there a bullet lube that is as effective as the Javelina without the mess like Thompson Blue angel? One of the local casters that made some really great bullets for me years ago used a hard red lube, similar to Blue angel, that I thought was great, any ideas on what that could have been?

I probably will heed their advice to some degree and use an aftermarket barrel in my 40 Glock and 45, I've seen the same guy blow out his mag or his extractor and bulge some cases in a 40. In the 9mm however, I may have to experiment a bit more.

What are your thoughts? Thanks.

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Standard Member

corerf posted this 27 October 2009

As for lube, Check out White Label Lubes in Idaho. Good Stuff. No recommendations, but the owner will be able to for sure.

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CBA Member

GBertolet posted this 27 October 2009

I have used cast bullets in my 9mm Glock with stock barrel. Using alox lube I have had no leading at all. Cast doesn't shoot as accurate as jacketed in my gun. While others have had varying success. At a GSSF match the Glock armorer told me that the factory barrels are internally tapered (choked) also. Which is a possible reason along with the polygonal rifling that Glock does not reccomend lead bullets be used in them. Plus the one I will describe, that Glock will not tell you. Your source is correct about the .40 leading more than the 9mm. Personal experience bears this out. A note of caution is in order here. Clean your Glock barrel after every shooting session. Leading could build up unexpectedly in the front of the chamber, inhibiting full lockup, but still close enough for the disconnector to permit firing . Glocks are notorious for being able to fire when not fully into battery. A little lead or bullet lube fouling and you could have a KABOOM! I witnessed this while being a R.O. at a GSSF match. It was a Glock 21 45acp with cast bullets. The gun was launched out of the shooters hand, the magazine was blasted out, and a few chunks of the grip were gone. The shooter had a minor cut on his hand that a bandaid fixed, while I had a facial cut from a piece of plastic. The exterior of the gun was filthy, so I doubt he was much of a gun cleaning type of guy. Glock took the gun immediately and said they would take care of it for the owner. A wise public relations move. The cause was most likely lead buildup in the chamber front. If you like your nine and plan a lot of shooting with lead, I would spend the hundered bucks and get a drop in Lone Wolf barrel.

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CBA Member

Duane Mellenbruch posted this 27 October 2009

GBertolet wrote: At a GSSF match the Glock armorer told me that the factory barrels are internally tapered (choked) also. Which is a possible reason along with the polygonal rifling that Glock does not reccomend lead bullets be used in them. I know that the material received with my Glock says that the shooting of reloads is not recommended, but there is no mention of cast bullets. Is this something new in their material or something stated only by the armorer?Your source is correct about the .40 leading more than the 9mm. Personal experience bears this out. My Glock Mod 23 in 40 S&W did not lead when the bullet was sized at .4015. Unfortunately, that die became out of round due to a manufacturing defect. The replacement die from Lyman sized exactly at .401 and bullets with the same alloy, same lube and shot in the same gun with the same load, leaded up the barrel. I attributed it to being an undersized bullet. A note of caution is in order here. Clean your Glock barrel after every shooting session. Leading could build up unexpectedly in the front of the chamber, inhibiting full lockup, but still close enough for the disconnector to permit firing . Glocks are notorious for being able to fire when not fully into battery. A little lead or bullet lube fouling and you could have a KABOOM! I witnessed this while being a R.O. at a GSSF match. It was a Glock 21 45acp with cast bullets. The gun was launched out of the shooters hand, the magazine was blasted out, and a few chunks of the grip were gone. The shooter had a minor cut on his hand that a bandaid fixed, while I had a facial cut from a piece of plastic. The exterior of the gun was filthy, so I doubt he was much of a gun cleaning type of guy. Glock took the gun immediately and said they would take care of it for the owner. A wise public relations move. The cause was most likely lead buildup in the chamber front. If you like your nine and plan a lot of shooting with lead, I would spend the hundered bucks and get a drop in Lone Wolf barrel. I agree that lead build up can be an issue and pay particular attention to this when I am shooting. As soon as the bullet impact is higher than expected, it is time to stop and clean. Duane Mellenbruch

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Standard Member

largecaliberman posted this 27 October 2009

I use Jake's ceressin (the purple stuff). This stuff is great for my Glock 34 with virtually no leading. The only downside with this lube is the output of smoke.

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CBA Member

GBertolet posted this 28 October 2009

I have used .401 dia cast bullets in my Glock 27 40 cal. The first 2 magazines shot pretty good. On the third mag the groups trippled in size. I stopped and upon inspection of the barrel when I got home, I could see no rifling at all, It was totally clogged with lead the full length of the barrel. It was a real mess getting it out. Rainier plated bullets shot awful too, but the plating prevented any leading. Jacketed is the only kind of bullet to date that shoots well in this Glock. I think it has to do with the polygonal rifling. Heat treated bullets are an option I haven't gotten around to trying yet. Apparently Glocks are very individual when it comes to lead. Possibly the ideal combination of power charge, bullet hardness and diameter along with the charateristics of the individual barrel is the deceiding factor.

In my IPSC group, in our production division, most regular Glock shooters that use lead, have aftermarket barrels. Lone Wolf being the most popular, possibly due to it's price and availability. It has been widely known for some time in this sport that lead is not reccomended in stock Glock barrels. Using it puts you in uncharted waters.

As being a regular R.O. in our annual Glock GSSF match, I have spoken to their factory armorers at their gunsmithing tent, and they say no no no, to using lead in Glocks period, due to the tapered barrel and polygonal rifling, which is designed and intended for use with jacketed bullets. And yes, they do state that they don't want reloaded ammo used at their matches either. But they will allow it if you insist.

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CBA Member

giorgio de galleani posted this 07 November 2009

Here in sunny Italy practical or dinamic shooting competitors, shoot tons of commercial cast bullets in their Glocks,in 9,40 & 45 with apparently no ill effects.

I have read that the extreme slickness of polygonal bores may raise pressures.

I firelapped the polygonal bore of my Heckler & Koch USC 45 acp carbine with valve grinding compound,have taken off some gloss and it hoots like a charm.

If I had been allowed to change my carbine barrel with one with a traditional rifling ,I would have done it.

We enjoy idiot gun control rules that make barrel changing in rifles in many cases, an impossible thing.

Remember that the US of A. are plagued by liability lawyers,and euro pean gunmakers fear and hate handloaded ammonition.

I do not buy the tale of a pistol exploding for a leaded throat.

I think you need a whole bullet lodged in the throat or leade ,with the help of a double charge.to get such astounding.fireworks.

I'm sure that some of the CBA Veterans might enlighten us on this subject.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 08 November 2009

The fact that handloaders use recipes that are over the manual 's max specifications is one of the reasons why the Glock people are against the use of reloaded ammo in their pistols.

Your load is 0.2 grains over the maximum quoted in Lyman 47 th Reloading manual.for their 175 bullet.

You are shooting unsized bullets of soft alloy ,lubed with a tumble lube ment for low pressure target loads.

May I advice the use of one full grain less powder, heat treating of your WW bullets and sizing them to .401 ?

I use Lee tumble lubed bullets in 9x21 ,45acp.357 mag and 44 mag guns,with no leading but ALL with low pressure loads.

We have a young and enthusiiast young member at our shooting club,he reloaded for his 10mm auto.He loaded veritable hand grenades,top loads from the Finn manual.

When he arrived at the firing line everybody politey retired to the the clubhouse to chat and smoke.leaving him alone.

His pistol was later sent to the importers repair shop.The chap has still got both his

hands,a tribute to the Glock sturdiness.

When I want pin shooting loads I use,hard alloys,gas checks and alox carnauba lube from LSTUFF.

And my H&K USC 45acp is polygonal.

Please take note,English is not my mother language,I do not mean to offend anybody,only I want to instill caution in my fellow reloaders.

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Standard Member

hunterspistol posted this 08 November 2009

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html>http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

My latest little experiment may show something. I worked up a load for a 9mm using a Lyman Devastator hollowpoint. The 9s were to be used in a S&W 5906. Since I have TC Contender single shots, I worked it up in a 10” Contender barrel beside Winchester WinClean Range Ammo. When I got approximately the same velocity and recoil at 50 meters, and the smallest group, I stopped.

I'd always heard that you fire jacketed behind lead to clean out the barrel. Oh gosh, was that a mistake! I ended up with fouling ahead of the chamber just like you're talking about. I had copper, lead and Carnuba Red to clean at the same time. By the way, Carnuba Red dissolves with acetone or ethyl acetate.

I asked about that, the twist rate makes the difference. The TC had a twist of 1 in 12” and not much throat. The S&W had a twist of 1 in 18.35. Once I got the TC cleaned up, decided to try the load in the S&W, it thought they were candy. No fouling, no problems, shot 30 rounds and only had to brush it out once. The answer to the TC is going to take more work. If you use a hard lube like Carnuba Red, clear all the lube off the bullet bases and sides, only lube the groove. There's too much of a good thing, reloading practices get ya.

Mr. Warner explained it like this, if you have a hard bullet being pushed too fast through the rifling then, it will slice off the sides of the lead bullet like a head of cabbage through a sauerkraut shredder! Amusing way to put it hence, leading. The polygonal rifling in a Glock may be slightly smoother but, may be having the same effect. The idea with an automatic is to use the lightest load that reliably cycles the action, I'll admit, I exceeded that in the original load. They still shoot softer in the S&W than you'd think.

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CBA Member

giorgio de galleani posted this 08 November 2009

My humble respects to a Lady shooting a 40 S&W glock.

I misunderstood your bullet type.It is not a tumble lube bullet.

A correctly sized bullet with a half&half Alox lube should more easily shoot without leading.

Lyman advices a starting load of 4.7 grains,your 5.2 is surely safe too.

The Alliant internet recipe book ,gives only one loading level,I prefer manuals that give starting loads,maximum loads and indicate pressure.

We are preparing for the fist bowling pin match at our Gun Club,my glock aficionados friends are preparing stout loads in their 40s.

The Glock a very clever project does not fit my hand. It has a wonderfully low slide,and does jump less in the hand.

My hands,like 911 and S&W revolvers with Pachmair round butt grips.And being old,antique, I prefer 45acp,45AR ,357 mag and 44m.

Enjoy your Wife's 40,and if your are not lucky with a polligone barrel,here you have ready an excuse to buy a traditional rifling barrel to play with.

Keep us informed with your experiments,one never knows enough things in this cast bullet sport.

Hope you have good warm weather in Florida,here,in the Po Valley it's drizzling,but a few degrees over freezing.