I would like to know why the 38/44 is not good for deer hunting? I am using the 170 gr 358429 ? Keith bullet in my smith 686 for 50 yards. I have a green dot sight on it. It's pretty accurate at 50 yards. Mv about 1200 fps. Other forums say it's not good for deer?? I fail to understand this. Any advice on this is appreciated. Johnny
38/44 for deer hunting
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I meant that from what I read the 38/44 load that you mentioned matches the .357 magnum’s performance.
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Oh,I see . So do you think it will be ok for close range deer hunting.
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If it was the only gun you had, would you use it?
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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If Elmer Keith can do it I think I can. Either that or use my 17 HMR..only 2 choices I have now. I might get a 416 Rigby for next year.
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It is adequate if you are. The key is whether you can precisely place your shot and forego any opportunity where you cannot. My 38/44 Outdoorsman has delivered for me in the past.
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I wouldn’t feel under gunned with that load. Inside of 50 yards you’ll get full pass through.
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A lot of "Internet Experts" seem to think that deer have somehow developed Kevlar skins and require massive amounts of power to kill. Where you hit them matters MUCH more than what you hit them with if you use a suitably constructed bullet. Know your limitations under field conditions and pick your placement. Good Luck.
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Will it kill a deer? YES
IF you are within 50 yards and shoot through the lungs.
It may very well run for a long distance, and if it does not exit the blood trail could be hard to follow.
Many conservation departments will allow its use. However, I've seen a lot of deer shot with 30-30 that failed to exit with lots of lost deer. Both of your proposed cartridges are good for deer only at short range and perfect shot placement.
Unless it was a survival matter, I would never use either one of those cartridges for deer hunting.
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The deer I’ve shot with handguns have not left good blood trails. Pick your shots carefully and practice a lot on smaller targets would be my advice. When I can hit something like a tennis ball at 25 yards standing with two hands I know I’m ready.
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I have seldom hunted, so I defer to what experienced hunters write. With regards to the "38" caliber, I recorded this many years ago by Brian Pearce: "... loaded with 155 to 180 grain cast bullets of correct design with a muzzle velocity of 1,200 to 1,500 fps will sail through deer and black bear broadside rather easily." He was commenting on the modern 357 revolver, which is downloaded from the originals. Your 38/44 load meets his recommendation.
More recently Richard Mann had this to say: "For most, the .357 Mangum is the best handgun cartridge for deer hunting. It does not hit as hard or make as big of a hole as the .44 Magnum, but the .357 Magnum is enough gun for deer, and more importantly, it’s enough gun without too much recoil." Modern factory 357 loads are little faster than your 38/44. (Mann has also had success with the 327 and recommends it, too.)
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Appreciate all your replies. I have faith I can do it. 50 yards groups of 3 inches. Not sure of the velocity yet,but I know it's 1200 or better..
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I think the .357 or .38/44 is mininal for deer hunting and then only if you shoot very well. I'd use the softest alloy that will give good accuracy and expansion and doesn't lead the bore. A 10 BHN bullet at 1200 fps will expand at fifty yards. I wouldn't cast harder than about 12 BHN if I was using the load for hunting.
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Now,you are the only one that I have heard,say you need a soft bullet. The other people say it needs to be a harder bullet so you get more penetration. The soft will expand to quickly with less penetration.??. Which will give more of a passthrough.?
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I spent my college days hunting whitetails in the piney woods of east Texas with a 6" .357 mag Dan Wesson. I had pretty good luck, but bullet placement was key as stated above. If I had a larger caliber revolver I would have used it.
I found that using the heaviest bullet possible was best and it was not necessary to have a bullet that would expand. A SWC of 158 - 170 grains that would penetrate through was best. I most always shot to hit the lung/heart area and used the hottest load possible. Most shots were between 30 to 75 yards, some head shots at the lower ranges.
Back then I was young and dumb as they say, but had very good eyesight and a very, very accurate revolver.
David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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If you're only hunting deer-sized game, there is not much body to penetrate; a soft, expanding cast bullet is more than adequate. Again, if your an expert shooter, a hard bullet is fine, but will behave as a FMJ bullet. Hit exactly what you aim at and it will work. Some of us need bullets that provide expansion.
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Very well said. So far I'm about to maintain 3 inch groups at 50 yards. Which I think is pretty good with muzzle velocity of 1200 or better. I have several desperato bullets that are 20 to 1 alloy which shoot pretty decent. Plus some harder t B bullets at 180 gr. I had to give up casting because of health issues. Of course I could always use the Hornady jacketed bullets.. johnny
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One scribe suggested to roll out a basketball and shoot at it. When you are no longer hitting it, you've established YOUR maximum hunting distance. The thinking was the basketball reploicates the vital area of a deer.
I 've taken (23) Wyoming Mule Deer 1982 -2014 using a .41 revolver, iron sights, cast bullets ranging between 280 and 325-grains. I practiced A LOT and never attempted a shot beyond my strong confidence distance.
At one time Wyoming Game and Fish had a regulation on using a handgun for deer hunting. The round had to have a remaining energy level of 500 foot pounds at 100-yards. There were no .357 commercial loads that could do that so you would be left debating with a game warden that your .357 handload met the standard. Probably a debate you would lose. Today that rule may be gone though.
Tom
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From experience
The 38-40 is a way too light in the britches for deer hunting.
Mashburn
David a. Cogburn
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I'm going to try them in my Rossi 92. They feed good thru it.plus it should pickup a few more fps.. time will tell..
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Marksmanship, knowledge of deer anatomy and shot placement are key. The 176 Keith bullet at any striking velocity above 800 fps will give complete pass-throughs on deer, but there is little shocking power unless larger bones are hit. Aim for the off-side shoulder to break animal down then approach for a sure finishing shot. Lung shot with no major bones and without a good blood trail you have a lost animal. The .44-40 is alot more effective than a .357 Magnum with non-expanding bullets.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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I have found that fat deer don’t bleed much. I used a Rossi 92 in 357 with 158 hollow points. I hit the deer too far back in the lungs at 50 yards . It didn’t run as luck would have it and I was able to get a better hit but I’m done with .358” bullets on deer.
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I was going to hunt this year until my game camera got these shots. Who could moider these little gals?
With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.
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I wonder how it would be in a rifle,like my Rossi 92 38-357 cal..it should pick up more muzzle velocity..
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Nice deer, young tender and tasty. Big antlers = old and tough.
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