Sources for tin

  • 12K Views
  • Last Post 16 May 2010
4570Ranger posted this 02 February 2009

I haven't been able to find a source for tin,not locally anyway. The other day,I unwrapped a crimp from “Tom's of Maine” toothpaste tube. I did see metal.And thought about those old toothpaste tubes of years back. Those tubes were made from tin. The tube I unwrapped a few days ago,will be finished shortly. Since we are having some nice weather,casting season ! And I'll see if this tube is actually tin or not. This is just a thought I'd throw out there. Well,there goes that idea ! Was just over at “Tom's of Maine". The tube question I asked about,a popup came about recycling the tubes. The answer was “We use 100% aluminum tubes"...... Back to square 1.

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
D.Hearne posted this 16 May 2010

I buy my tin from a local wholesale(they do retail sales too) plumbing supply company: Coburn Supply (south Louisiana) they keep 50/50 bar solder in stock. Price varies with the market. I have no problem buying 10-20 pounds at a time from them, been doing it this way for years.

Attached Files

gunarea posted this 16 April 2010

Thanks J J J

   You rekindled a good thread I had watched with interest. The wails of fellow casters over ruined alloy had been shared by myself as well as others.The solution, for me, came by way of my love for shooting. There is no definitive single shooting discipline that holds my interest to exclusion, I shoot em all. Now I cast em all. What might have been unusable in the past, is now preferable.

   To all out there with undesirable alloy, here are the answers;

               #1, Get a Middleton shot maker.

               #2, Send the junk to me.

   I shoot it all and can use it in one way or another, you can too. Waste not, want not.

                                                                                       Roy

Shoot often, Shoot well

Attached Files

jimjimmyjames posted this 14 April 2010

I know that this thread has been long dead, but I use Kester's K100LD Lead free solder. I use their bar solder in my shop and have also found it perfect for adding tin to cast bullets. It's content is 99.3% tin and .7% copper. When using this tin to improve casting flow, I have never had an issue with that .7% copper.

http://www.kester.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=tw8x9pVQhlc%3d&tabid=144

Attached Files

hunterspistol posted this 25 November 2009

:coffee     One other point that I'm sure will get me into more trouble is the superiority of ladle casting.   As well as its other benefits, I found that it would successfully cast alloy that would not cast bottom pour because of contamination.   I have investigated all these things in depth.   For example, on one occasion I spent two working months figuring out why I was getting particular problems with bottom pour that I was not getting with ladle casting.   So its your choice whether to believe me.   Some on this forum don't.   

   Those bullets from that teeny little pot that take so long to pour with a ladle, just keep going downrange onto target.  Hmm.... Sometimes I end up talking to a “bottom pour” wall too.  Leaves me at a loss though.

Attached Files

JetMech posted this 25 November 2009

Dicko wrote: One other point that I'm sure will get me into more trouble is the superiority of ladle casting. So its your choice whether to believe me.   Some on this forum don't.Dicko, what gets people upset is when someone presents their experiences as absolutes, that no one could possibly have done the same or similar and gotten different results. No one doubts your experiences (at least I don't), just don't present your findings as gospel.

Attached Files

Dicko posted this 25 November 2009

Dalerj wrote: Dicko, What does the copper and selenium do the alloy to make it unusable? Another thing, I hear that zinc will ruin alloy for casting. What does ruin mean? I have some ww that have zinc melted in with the lead & antomy ( I didn't know about the zinc ww when I melted the batch down and made bricks) I have not tried it yet. What do you predict will happen if I try to use the lead with zinc? Thanks Dalerj

There are traces of harmful impurities in most scrap lead.   "Harmful” does not mean dangerous, it means adverse effect on casting.   In that context “impurities” means any material that can cause such adverse effects.   There are various, but those most likely to be found in scrap lead are copper, aluminium and zinc.   More than 0.25% copper impedes castability ie the ability of the alloy to fully fill the mould.  It shows up in incomplete fill out of lube grooves and semi wadcutter shoulders that should be nice and square but are rounded.   No amount of addition of tin or antimony or increase of temperature cures it.   In sufficient concentration it can be seen as small lumps in the surface of the melt.   In theory it is not difficult to remove but I found the recommended method didn't work.

As little as 0.10% aluminium has the same effect and can precipitate crystals that can clog a bottom pour spout.   Zinc causes thickenning of dross and skin formation that also ruins castability.  

Copper, aluminium and zinc are the most common contaminants.  The most likely sources are copper from babbit metal, aluminium from type metal blocks and zinc from die casting moulds.   It is a bigger problem than it once was because many items these days are made from scrap which may itself contain these metals, like wheelweights.    

The effect of all three in preventing good quality castings is so similar that you can't tell which it is.   But it doesn't matter because the result is the same and you can't remove it nor can you use the alloy.   I'll return to that shortly, but first let's look at some others which are less common but may be encountered occasionally, some of which can be dangerous.   Calcium will combine with antimony to form an intermetallic compound which, having low solubility in lead and lower specific gravity, will float to the surface where it will be removed with the dross, thus depleting the antimony.

More importantly, the intermetallics in the dross can react with moisture or moist air to form stibine or arsine gas both of which can be dangerous in small quantities.   Strontium is somewhat similar.  Barium and Magnesium are in the same chemical family as Calcium and Strontium but neither is present to any extent in lead alloys.  Both would cause an increase in dross levels.   Magnesium will cause bullet disintegration over time by inter-granular corrosion.

The only source of calcium and strontium is maintenance free vehicle batteries which are best avoided as a source of lead bgecause they are too much trouble anyway.

I have never used solder containing selenium, but I would expect and effect similar to copper, aluminium or zinc.

The good news is that in two decades of commercial casting I have encountered only a few batches of scrap that caused problems.   In particular, copper is the biggest problem simply because you might encounter scrap that contains copper because some of the lead items have been made from scrap including some babbit metal.  If you avoid babbit metal you will be OK.   There are various babbit metals, not all of which contain copper.   But one formulation contains 8% copper.   The problem is you don't know which you have.

If you get a batch of alloy that won't cast properly don't persist.   Set it aside and mix it no more than 10% with good alloy.   Unless it has an unusually high % of contaminant, "watering” it down to 10% of its % will bring it below the level at which it will affect anything.

That's my recommendation for your zinc contaminated alloy.  There's nothing else you can do.   Prepare a small melt with 10% of the zinc contaminated alloy.   If you still get trouble reduce to 5%.   That should do the trick.

One other point that I'm sure will get me into more trouble is the superiority of ladle casting.   As well as its other benefits, I found that it would successfully cast alloy that would not cast bottom pour because of contamination.   I have investigated all these things in depth.   For example, on one occasion I spent two working months figuring out why I was getting particular problems with bottom pour that I was not getting with ladle casting.   So its your choice whether to believe me.   Some on this forum don't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

Dalerj posted this 23 November 2009

Dicko, What does the copper and selenium do the alloy to make it unusable? Another thing, I hear that zinc will ruin alloy for casting. What does ruin mean? I have some ww that have zinc melted in with the lead & antomy ( I didn't know about the zinc ww when I melted the batch down and made bricks) I have not tried it yet. What do you predict will happen if I try to use the lead with zinc? Thanks Dalerj

Attached Files

Dicko posted this 23 November 2009

Hi 4570 Ranger,

Let me first ask why you want tin ?   If you are casting black powder bullets you will need tin in most cases but for normal handgun and rifle bullets tin is about the last thing you need.   The rule of thumb is that tin is for castability and hardens a little but not much, while antimony is the hardening agent and helps castability a little.   But the % of antimony needed for good bullets improves castability to the extent the tin is not needed.   And as tin is expensive and does little to increase hardness why use it ?

But if you must use it, buy it new from the Antimony Man or other specialist supplier.  The best place is probably your local lead foundry.   Most towns have one.  Avoid solder, especially solder that contains copper and selenium, both of which will in the smallest quantities ( less than 0.25% ) render the alloy unusable.

Babbit metal is an even bigger no-no.    There are various babbit metal mixes.   Not all contain copper but some do and you won't know the difference.   There is enough copper in some babbit metals to ruin your alloy even if mixed with good metal.

Why put yourself through these complications when bullet alloy is so easy to blend ?   Scrap lead can contain various impurities like copper, zinc, aluminium, etc, that can spoil the alloy, but my experience has been that scrap is OK 99% of the time.  So get some scrap, buy new antimony, forget the tin, and blend your own in a big melting pot.   When you've done that just once you'll never look back.  

 

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

hunterspistol posted this 21 June 2009

  The antimony man can tell you! http://www.bulletmetals.net/>http://www.bulletmetals.net/

Attached Files

JeffinNZ posted this 21 June 2009

I was in the right place at the right time some years back and scored a BIG bearing holding a large amount of tin based babbit (white metal). Most likely it will see me out.

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

fieldsjj posted this 21 June 2009

I have purchased tin from Rotometals also, they are legit

http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm

but I would go in with someone to get up to the free shipping next time

Attached Files

Edward posted this 20 June 2009

For a good source of “free” tin look for old, and I mean old, refrigators or freezers (rounded tops etc.)with the exposed cooling coils on the back. If you bend them and they feel as if they are breaking as they bend, then they are tin, sometimes copper coated or colored. I always hit the old “roadside dumps” when I see old refrig or freezer. Take your wire clippers and pry the coils free and check them. If you get lucky, melt them down and clean it up and you have a good amount of tin.

Attached Files

barney posted this 17 May 2009

3sixbits wrote:

The vary last thing I want in any melt I do, is to have copper, or selenium. These two metals are a big NO NO for a bullet caster.   Well, maybe I missed something in metalurgy. I've been using tin/copper/selenium/silver as an alloy additive since it came on the market(1980s?) and have never had a problem. I can drive the BHN of my bullets up from 10 all the way to well over 30 with this additive. It has never affected my pot, molds, cylinders/chambers or barrels.

Attached Files

3sixbits posted this 15 May 2009

Lillard wrote: The solder I got at lowes was Lenox brand the solder that he gave me was Dutch Boy brand it is only tin and antimony I think it cast better may be just in my head I don't know. I think the absence of cooper and selenium may be why it did not work well for the plumber. The last time I was in Lowes they had Dutch Boy and Lenox . One roll to fifty lb. of WW is still pretty cheep shooting.

The vary last thing I want in any melt I do, is to have copper, or selenium. These two metals are a big NO NO for a bullet caster. I'm surpriced no one has made this comment before? 

Depending on where you are, I highly recommend working with Bill Furgson. Or Rotometals. The other fellow mentioned must be first class also, or we would have heard other wise.

 

Attached Files

mike morrison posted this 06 May 2009

john walters 500 n. avery dr. moore, ok 73160 405-799-0376 [email protected] $10.00lb

this from his ad in the singleshot exchange april 2009

bill ferguson [email protected] 520-458-5321 per his ad in the fowling shot.

hope this helps. mike

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 06 May 2009

FWIW I bought 10# of tin from Bufflao Arms Co. less than a month ago and their price dropped from $15.95/# down to $9.95/# (plus shipping).

http://www.buffaloarms.com/

Attached Files

barney posted this 06 May 2009

Gentlemen, BE ADVISED! The copper and selenium in modern production lead free solder acts as a hardener. I used this stuff for years before I retired from pipefitting and plumbing. I have a bucket load of it that I collected scraps of over the years and it WILL drive the BHN up very quickly. Use it like Brylcream. “A little dab'll do ya'."

Attached Files

CB posted this 08 March 2009

There is a place online called Rotometals..

They have all types of bullet alloys and tin.. Fair prices and free shipping if you spend $100.00.

http://www.rotometals.com

Attached Files

conundrum374 posted this 07 March 2009

just checked, granger is sold out. that solder is discontinued. there may be some stock at the local branches.:(

Attached Files

Sierra Joe posted this 10 February 2009

Midway sells tin in two pound increments (2-1# ingots) good stuff but a little expensive at 20.00/#. I did call Grainger today and they still had some of the lead free solder at 6.93, bought 20# but they still had more apparently.

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Categories
Search
Popular Tags
This Weeks High Earners
Hot Topics
Close