30BR info...

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  • Last Post 06 December 2023
Longbow posted this 30 November 2023

OK guys.  How about anyone shooting the 30BR put in there tips that have helped them shoot better and get more shooters for the bolt gun. i mostly do breech seat. But have a Lilja 11 twist barrel  I picked up in 30BR.So time to play. Your feedback appreciated for myself and other cast bullet shooters. Thankyou !

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 30 November 2023

The tech data posted with match reports is a good place to start. Most others that I have seen use more powder than I do. I have found that my lighter charge works for me. With every new load it is wise to start low and work up. N133, N135, Varget and other powders have worked. 

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OU812 posted this 30 November 2023

I started a 30BR project, but never completed...too much going on. I have new box of 7mm BR brass and new 30 BR die for sale. PM if interested.

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OU812 posted this 30 November 2023

Once you get the bumped/ tapered bullet fitted to throat correctly you will notice a lot of powders will work pretty good. Having a lathe large enough to do your own barrel machining would be nice or get to know a good gunsmith really well helps.

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Tom Acheson posted this 30 November 2023

Check out the most recent Lyman Cast Bullet hanbook. There is one page of 30 BR loads, various molds. Lyman decided to allow the displaying of non Lyman molds in some loads.

Tom

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Wm Cook posted this 02 December 2023

Here's the 30BR results from the '23 Nationals that might help. 

First impression is that there's a lot of high velocity loads that average >2000.  I'm not sure about the case capacity of the BR but it looks like most are running close to 30 grains.  Lots of N135 and 2495 being shot.  Bullet weight looks to be around 200 grains. 

Bullet design seems to favor the bore rider with more than a few with the Egan design.  Accurate's Egan design is the 210E (~204.2 lubed) and his 230E (~219.5 lubed).  The 31-220F is a conical design.  It looks like the 30BR neck is a little shorter than a .308 but can't put my hands on a drawing I can count on.  So that last bit was just a guess.

Everyone is using Lino. About one in four bump the nose. 

Just out of curiosity, what powder/bullet are you going to start with? 

The attachment below is showing just the 30BR's that shot in the '23 National.  The top half has the results sorted by what powder was used.  The bottom half is sorted by the 100 yard 5 shot aggregate.  Looks like a bunch of fun.  Good luck, Bill C.

 

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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OU812 posted this 02 December 2023

Most all of these groups are disappointing to me. Was it REAL WINDY that day?

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Tom Acheson posted this 02 December 2023

From the FWIW department...

30 PPC with a 170-180-grain LBT or Eagan bullet,  50/50 mono/lino, 1950-2100 fps mv. VV N-133 was it's favorite. It set (6) new NR's @ a Windhill match in June 2006. It's not a 30 BR, but close.

Haven't used any VV powders since maybe 2010. Hard to come by in our area....and....expensive.

Tom

 

 

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Longbow posted this 02 December 2023

I have alot of those powders on the shelf.Also an old Eagan mold bought years ago and the NEI Eagan style also bought two years ago. A major lower back operation in March put the skids on anything this last year,another operation coming up.   I thought the same about the 30PPC since we are only shooting to 200 yds. Colder en hell here in montana. Did buy like 30# of  lino A couple years back. I always thought A 10-1 lead might be good for the 30BR load. I use it in my 25-20 breech seat loads. thanks guys i appreciate your time in sharing.Pete

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OU812 posted this 02 December 2023

The 30BR uses standard 308 Winchester bolt face. It would be lots easier to convert my Remington VS to 30 BR (just swap barrels). The PPC requires its own PPC bolt/face.

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Jeffrey54776 posted this 03 December 2023

Hello All,

Just a few points I can throw out that may help some just from shooting and being around 30BR lead guns.

-The charts Bill posted are missing one important piece of information. The vast majority of lead 30BR' are 1-13" twist. I'm not saying an 11" twist won't work, but it may prove to be more finicky.

-Powders and charges will vary, sometimes a lot, some times a little between barrels and bullets. The cases will vary as well. Peterson brass can get similar speeds to Lapua with a few tenths less powder on some of the lots. Never take your brass for granted and always double check your pressure signs. A 30Br at full steam is a pretty full case.

  • to follow up on the 30ppc, that bolt face statement is not always true. A 308 face with a Sako or M16 style extractor will pull a PPC case. That's pretty cheap modification most times that really opens the doors to having multiple barrel options that you can witch out pretty easy.

  • If you are going to run a 30BR and push for 2000fps+, linotype or bust. It makes a difference.

    Just a little information that may save some time down the road

Jeffrey Sechrist Co-Webmaster

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Wm Cook posted this 03 December 2023

Jeffrey that was some pretty good information.  Attached shows the twist rate for this years 30BR shooters at the KC Nationals. 

One set of data is just that, one set of data.  But you can see how well the lighter (shorter) bullets with the slower barrel twist shot compared to heavier (longer) bullets with the faster barrel twist in the Nationals this year.  If that holds true I think its the first case where, in competition, I saw that too fast a twist can be a handicap (assuming normal every day velocity). But I don't know much and have a lot to learn.

I'm going to ask you, just because I'm messing around with this, has there ever been brass made with a small flash hole?  With a full column of slow powder one could almost fall into thinking that a small flash hole might act like the .308 Palma brass.  Or maybe you could just take a moment and explain about the variations on the 30BR brass.  And maybe comment on throat taper?

This is sorted by group size.  Thanks again.  Bill C.

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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Paul Pollard posted this 03 December 2023

Wm Cook.

My 30BR cases are made from Lapua 6mmBR norma brass. They have .059 flash holes in small rifle primer pockets.

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Tom Acheson posted this 03 December 2023

I did the "bolt face dance" years ago. First for the 30 Kern, then the 30 PPC. But then I reverted back to a 223 case for the 30 Silhouette round. That's the same lower case configuration as the XP-100's original 221 Rem. Fireball.   I bought a new bolt from Pacific Tool to get the smaller bolt face. And then...it was the 6.5 BR/TKS, so back to iriginally modified, opened-up bolt face.

You can open up a bolt face but you can't go back. So it becomes a consideration as you dive into new chamberings.

Tom

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OU812 posted this 03 December 2023

Looking at the match results chart. You can get the 308 Winchester to shoot on par. Pacific tool has everything you need. Taper bumping has been discussed lots in this forum, just do a search.

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Wm Cook posted this 03 December 2023

I asked about the 30BR case variances because it shows someone shot a Fed 210 with the 30BR.  Might have been a typo. 

It looks like the 30BR owns the UnR, UnP and the HVY class much as the 6 PPC owns the jacketed BR competition.  Of the 15 shooters competing in UnR, UnP and HVY, 12 of the 15 were shooting 30BR.  The remaining 3 were shot wildcats (30 Kem, 30 Alley Cat and the 30 Hammer). 

The 30BR must be a pretty good place to start if you have the right platform and were chasing sub .75" groups.  Slow powder, high velocity Linotype, ~180 to 200 grain bullet; sounds easy doesn't it .

Just a side note; 30BR owns the score competition on the jacketed side. 

It's hard to compare the 30BR v the 308 because there were no 308's shooting in the heavy / unlimited classes.   But this is what it looked like.

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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Jeffrey54776 posted this 03 December 2023

The only two options I am aware of for a 210m in a 30 BR are: - Typo - a lot of hours spent making 30BR cases from 308's.

I have attempted to make a few 30BR cases from 308's recently with success, but boy is it a job.

On the topic of brass, 2 of the rifles and one of the pistols in the data posted were fired with Peterson Brass. For us, it has been lasting longer before the brass got hard enough to require replacement or annealing. We don't like annealing because in the past it has shown to be a constant process once started.

Pricing on the Peterson is on par if not a hair cheaper than Lapua. It is also a Made in the USA product. Alpha Munitions also makes 6BR cases and from what I've heard, they make a fantastic product as well albeit slightly more expensive than the Lapua. A note on Peterson and Alpha, they both ship their brass in MTM style boxes with foam packing if it's not the 500rd bulk pack. No more crushed necks!

Jeffrey Sechrist Co-Webmaster

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Tom Acheson posted this 04 December 2023

Reminds me of a long ago thing. There was a time when the 7BR took the handgun silhouette crowd by storm. But...no commercial brass, you had to make your own....from 308 Winch cases.

Somebody locally came up with a set of case forming dies. A whole bunch of shooters shared those dies, passing them around. The Remington XP-100 chambered in 7 BR became very popular with many handgun silhouette shooters for a long time.

Eventually Remington introduced the small rifle primer correct cases. In 1990 I built my XP in 30 BR, sometimes called 308 x 1 1/2. Simply necking the 7 BR cases up to .30 cal.

Tom

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Wm Cook posted this 04 December 2023

Thanks Jeffery.  Paul said the 6mm Lapua Norma brass had the small .059 flash hole.  I’m guessing that the Peterson & Alpha has a .093 flash hole.  

I wonder if .059 v .093 flash hole even a topic of conversation amongst the 30BR shooters.

The 30BR has a pretty firm grip on both cast and jacketed competition (score).  Looking at the Nationals from 21, 22 and 23 there were a total of 50 aggregates shot by 35 different competitor/cartridge combinations.  Of the 35, 22 were shot with the 30BR, 6 were wildcats (3 of the 6 by Jeffery Sechrist) and another 7 that could be called the “other” category.  Correct me if I messed that up.  That Prindell & Palmisano case design sure did turn out to be something didn’t it.

I have an extra Savage 10 with a H&S stock on it that would be a lot of fun to work with.  But I got the devil by it his tail with a .308 so I had better reel it in.  Thanks Pete.  Good thread.  Bill C.

A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.

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Jeffrey54776 posted this 04 December 2023

I was not shooting those three unfortunately, my whole family shoots though. I actually shoot one of those 300 AlleyCats. Pretty close to a 30PPC.

From what I can tell the Peterson and Alpha are small flashhole as well.

Jeffrey Sechrist Co-Webmaster

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Longbow posted this 06 December 2023

I appreciate all the replies. it looks like A 12-13  twist  may  the best  to look at? Are you buying the 30BR reamer and a throater also to cut the chamber for whatever bullet you decide to shoot?  thankyou. Pete

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