30 cal 1:7 twist

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Lucky1 posted this 3 weeks ago

Hi everyone!

Just starting to work with a 300BO with a 1 in 7 twist. This is waaay faster than any 30 I have worked with and could use some advice on bullet selection and range of speeds that are appropriate for this one. I know there are several people who have formulas for calculating these parameters and are much more knowledgeable in this. Supersonic is fine since I don't have a can but I'm not opposed to subsonic ones. I can come up with molds from 155 to 230 grains. So where to start?

Scott Ingle

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

I know nothing about the 300 BO nor about shooting subsonic with rifles. I do know that the 10" twist in my Springfield stabilized 250 grain Barns bullets at 2,300 fps. Of course these were round nose bulets and short for the weight. 1 in 7 seems excessive for any useful 30 caliber bullet. My wild guess (with no evidence) is it was chosen because 1 in 7 is common in 5.56 ARs. Can't imagine what kind of 30 caliber bullet would need  1-7 --- but maybe for subsonic. I did have a shooter come to our range with a box of factory loaded 5.56 with 112 grain bullets. They didn't shoot well in his 1-14 twist bolt gun. I asked for a round and still have the 112g bullet. So maybe someone is making 300 grain 30 caliber bullets.

I wouldn't worry about having too much twist for full charge loads. 110 grain 30 caliber bullets often shoot well 10 twist 30-06, and 40 g Hornady shoot great in my 1 in 8"  223.

Sorry I couldn't offer anything to answer your questions.

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Idahocaster posted this 3 weeks ago

Would 300BO have a faster twist rate because it has a lower velocity? Barrel twist rate times muscle velocity gives you a bullet rpm. To get a similar rpm with a slower bullet you would need a faster twist rate.

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delmarskid posted this 3 weeks ago

All I know is what I have read about the blackout in 1-7. It appears that some have had good luck with a Lee boat tail mold at about 1100 fps and under using H-110.

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Lucky1 posted this 3 weeks ago

I'm thinking you guys are right about the 1 in 7 and slow, heavy bullets. And there is basically a speed limit in the number of rpms that cast can handle. I do have that Lee mold from way back when and could never get it to work in a 1 in 10 twist so this may be the one to try again. Thanks

Scott Ingle

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Tom Acheson posted this 3 weeks ago

Long ago there was a movement afoot that promoted fast twist with light bullets in the CBA unrestricted “Pistol” match gun category. This would have been in “pistols” of unlimited weight and barrel length.

The 30 cal. twist rate was in the 1:7 neighborhood and muzzle velocities exceeding 2500 fps.

But maybe that genre of activity faded away?

Tom

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Lucky1 posted this 3 weeks ago

Tom- you got my attention with that kind of velocity. So I'll dive back in the old results to see what's there. I wouldn't have thought about Unltd Pistol so thanks for that clue. Powder coating starts to come to mind too.

Scott Ingle

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Ed Harris posted this 3 weeks ago

314299 is accurate and stable subsonic in the traditional 1:10" twist. A twist of 1:7" is excessive for any normal use and would rapidly degrade accuracy with lighter bullets at high velocity. Would be interested whether Larry Gibson might have tested one of these barrels and could contribute hard data as opposed to my guesswork.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Tom Acheson posted this 3 weeks ago

True, 1:7 twist may be excessive. What I was relating was a concept or theory advanced by a few. The 30 cal. bullets being postulated were 100-110 grains.

When the tech info from the 2026 National Tournament are published, we might see some UNP (Unrestricted Pistol) equipment details that fit the parameters that I was relating….along with their results.

Tom

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

Tom,

I'm afraid your memory has failed you. Just wait till you get old.  You are right about the light bullets but have the twist part backward.

HL Yarborough won the unresticted rifle class at the 2007 nationals shooting a UNP (before there was a class for UNP), He used a 108 grain bullet in a 30 BR with a 22" barrel with a 1 in 18" twist. muzzle velocity was listed at 2,750 fps.

Pat Iffland also used a similar approach, in the same match, shooting a 155 grain bullet at 2,650 fpa from a 23" barrel with a 1 in 17" twist  and shot competitively.

It looked like CBA shooting might look very different in the future, but that approach disappeared without a trace. UNP shooters. like some others, are now shooting heavy bullets and twists only a bit slower than 1 in 10". I don't know why the light bullet, slowt wist, high velocity approach was dropped after such a dramatic beginning. You might speculate that the light bullet at high velocity approach might still be the way to go for cast bullet progress.

John

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Tom Acheson posted this 3 weeks ago

John,

Oh heck, I just left off the “1”, 7:1 vs 17:1.

But I still remember where my casting and loading benches are!

I’m still trying to catch to you in years. I’m getting close to being the oldest guy shooting at our local matches.

Tom

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Lucky1 posted this 3 weeks ago

Now we know why they came up with 12 people on a jury hundreds of years ago. The power of the collective memory really is something. I saw 17:1 and went 'drat'.

Scott Ingle

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JohnH posted this 3 weeks ago

Muscle velocity. Dont know if thats an intentional twist or not but I sure like it. Gonna borrow that one

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JohnH posted this 3 weeks ago

Lucky1, Id always been of the understanding that a slower twist was used in the 300 Whisper back when JD Jones created it so that at subsonic speeds those long heavy bullets would tumble on impact and create larger and more reliable wound channels. Gotta remember, that cartridge was designed to run subsonic in the AR platform for law enforcement doing no knock entries and the like and they were unhappy with 9mm bullet performance in those days. (Yeah, im older than dirt.

Time passes and Advanced Armament Corporation is charged with a quite similar task and in my eyes basically recreated the Whisper, giving it a longer bullet seat in the chamber and having SAMMI bless it.

Summer of '25 I bought a 300 Blackout barrel from Midway for my Encore. What arrives is an SSK Industries barrrl marked 300 Whisper. I didnt put a lot of thought into until now. I asked chatgpt to find info on the twist for that barrel and what it could find about what JD may have said about it

Well, I was hoping I wouldnt have to run a tight patch in mine to find out, but I do. Yet Chat came up with an interesting article where JD says he experimented with 1:6, 1:7, 1:8 and settled on 1:8 as the best compromise for subsonic accuracy. Said nothing about on target performance. The semi solid kind amyway.

Ive not shot that barrel in a while but have got cases loaded up im shooting over the weekend. In memory from last year I was getting good results out of Lee's 312185, Lyman 311299 and the RCBS 150 CM

Will be shooting Lyman 311299 this weekend ill share what happens and ill push a patch through my barrel and tell ya its twist.

As a side note, I got this this barrel because my AR will not shoot cast worth a hoot. Jacketed it shoots like a house afire so I feed it what it likes.

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Idahocaster posted this 3 weeks ago

"Muscle velocity. Dont know if thats an intentional twist or not but I sure like it. Gonna borrow that one."

Definitely unintentional. I do most of my posts from my phone. Auto correct is always getting the best of me! Glad you got a chuckle out of it!

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Lucky1 posted this 3 weeks ago

John H- i really like my SSK in 32-20 and it does like cast so good luck. Thanks for the info and please let me know your velocities if you do chrono them. I have all those bullets on hand too.

Scott Ingle

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tomme boy posted this 3 weeks ago

You need the fast twist for the 220gr sub sonic bullet and a 125gr for the super sonic. It was not configured in any way for a lead bullet. I would love to have a 14 tw 300. But I settled on a 1-8 tw. I have not had the best luck because of the constraints I have to use with my barrel.

 

Brass is a very limiting factor. If I load anything over a 0.308" bullet it jams in the neck. I have a extremly tight neck. Some brass even with a 0.308" bullet will stick. The brass is just too thick. If I turned some brass I feel I could use it more. But I have to measure every piece of brass to make sure it is not too thick. It is a real PITA. So I just try to shoot jacketed as the bullet actually needs a 0.3095" to seal right. But the neck being tight I would have to turn the brass. And using actual 300 brass make no difference. 

If my barrel was not nitride I would rent a reamer to see if it would open the neck a little to get the larger bullets to work. 

 

 

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RicinYakima posted this 3 weeks ago

Bite the bullet, and turn 20 rounds of brass.

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delmarskid posted this 2 weeks ago

Maybe you can scrounge some .222 brass. I think it’s a little thinner than .223

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Eutectic posted this 2 weeks ago

Having tried light bullets in the 308 and 30.06 I can hazard a guess as to why they did not last. Wind drift is directly related to velocity loss. If it is a calm day you may have a good time. A little wind, especially at 200 yards becomes a big estimating game.  

Our cast bullets tend to have lower ballistic coefficient than jacketed. Fast velocity loss is just a fact of life.

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