Need cast load 30-40 Krag

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  • Last Post 25 April 2009
Maggie Drawers posted this 09 July 2008

I've got a nice US Krag (rifle, not carbine) and I am trying to find a good target load for it.

I was advised to try 18.5 grs of 4198 with my 311284 (210 gr) bullet.  At 100 yards it is great - groups under 2.25 inches consistently (that's as good as I can shoot with iron sights). 

But - the vintage rifle match I want to shoot in also has targets at 228 yards.  This load I find creeps along at 1475 fps.  I need something with a bit more ooomph to reach out to 228 yards.

I'm thinking in the area of 1600-maybe 1800 fps. 

The guy who suggested the 4198 load said that with his Krag he had no accuracy with that powder at higher velocities in his Krag. 

Anyone have any suggestions on a higher velocity 30-40 Krag load using the 210 grain 311284 bullet?

Thanks very much for any and all suggestions.

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madsenshooter posted this 25 April 2009

Among my 6 Krags I have a 92/96 that has been sporterized. Barrel is 24", the stock has been pretty heavy sanded, making it a very sleek rifle. Has a Rice bolt mounted peep and a Williams hooded front sight. With a Hornady 123gr .310 V-Max over 22.2gr of 4227 it shoots groups like the one above. I have a scout mount for it too, but I like the circle within a circle peep. It'll be my grandson's in a few years.

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AMMOe posted this 24 April 2009

I don't know how “vintage” my original barreled Krag Sporter is, but it appears to have been done in the 50's. Very 30's styling but the sights are definitely 50's.

All this Krag talk makes me wish I had my original, Neidner-built .25 Neidner-Krag rifle back! Had a Sedgley Sporter Krag once upon a time. It was an elegant rifle. I sold it to help put my daughter through school. A good investment, I guess!~AMMOe

PS: My Sedgley was lapped to the lug as well....

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madsenshooter posted this 24 April 2009

The bolt in mine must've been specially made, or selected. Even if I use it in another rifle, the safety lug bears without leaving excess headspace. I'm a little leery of swapping it though, I read a post on Culver's old forum about a rifle that was cracked where the safety lug bears on the receiver. Someone had taken too much off the locking lug and the safety lug was taking all the force. I have ran across one brittle receiver too, in the 13,000 range. Shame, it had the only .308 groove diameter barrel of my 6 Krags.

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Ed Harris posted this 24 April 2009

My Krag, a Bannerman Sporter, is set up the same as yours. Texas Flyboy has another. Have seen others featured in Gun Digest articles, there are alot of them around. Would sure be nice to see how many we could gather in one place for a match one day. How many people on this forum have vintage Krag sporters?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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madsenshooter posted this 23 April 2009

I appreciate the concern Ed, I'm using Blue Dot, which isn't far from 2400 in the scheme of things. Guess it's a little harder to light though. Only thing Red was the lube. My Krag has been set up, apparently by an armorer, with the safety lug touching the receiver for a little added safety. When I got it, I knew someone had once had their hands on it that knew what they were doing. The bolt body is an old 92 with the uncut safety lug. Still I take it easy on her.

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Ed Harris posted this 23 April 2009

Madsenshooter.... I sure hope that you were NOT shooting FIFTEEN grains of Red Dot, and that you mistyped.

"The Load” of 13 grs. of Red Dot is intended for modern strong actions like the Springfield and 98 Mausers, and is too much for a weaker action like a Krag. In the .303 Lee Enfields I would use the full 13 grs. only in the later Long Branch and Savage No. 4 rifles and not in other wartime No. 4s or in any No.1s.

In a Krag I'd cut back to no more than 8 grs. of Red Dot. In mine I like 13 grs. of #2400 with GC bullets or 7 grs. of Bullseye with plainbases.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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AMMOe posted this 22 April 2009

You done us Krag shooters Proud, son! Keep it up!~AMMOe

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madsenshooter posted this 22 April 2009

Here's another load for my Krag.  Belding and Mull 311169, which was giving me fits until I slowed down and switched to magnum primers (all I have).  Charge is 12.5gr of Blue Dot, Rem 9 1/2M primer.  Boolit is sized to .311 for my .310 bore.  Range is 85 yards.  This will be my load for embarrassing some of black rifle guys! 5 shot group, 3 in a cloverleaf, the other 2 touching less than an inch away.

:}

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LWesthoff posted this 19 March 2009

In 1945, while I was home on shore leave, I bought a “sporterized” Krag. That was my first high powered rifle. (During the war it was impossible to find a commercial center fire rifle for sale anyplace.) That was my hunting rifle until sometime in the '60's, when I bought a new Herter U9 (BSA action)'06. I kept the Krag for old time's sake, and when the NRA Cast Bullet Handbook came out I decided to see what the Krag would do with a cast bullet. I still have one of the targets, shot 5/1/88 at 100 yards off an improvised bench rest with a 3X scope, 28.5 gr. 4064, Lyman 311291 cast of lino, with a dacron filler. 10 rounds in 3.3 inches; 8 of 'em in 1.4 inches with one out high right and one out low left. Not good enough for a “screamer” patch, but plenty good for minute of coyote and/or California blacktail and/or Montana muley. (After reading about chamber ringing, I gave up on the dacron filler.)

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madsenshooter posted this 19 March 2009

Krag Scout Mount.  In a previous post, I had posted about using a Miller Kodiak Mount to put a scope on my Krag. Since then I found a fellow selling a scout mount on ebay that allows you to put a red dot or LER pistol scope on your Krag rifle. 2 of the 6 he had to sell arrived today, and I've attached some pictures. All you do is remove your rear sight and replace it with the mount he is making. For those of you shy on screws, he is even having the odd threaded Krag sight screws made to go with the mounts! It works with the 1901 handguard with no modifications needed, I haven't tried it with other handguards yet. He is also loading the Hornady 150gr BTSP @2300fps and selling them @$118/100rnds. The load appears to bust the myth that short bullets are not accurate in the Krag as he has shot a .45” 50 yard group with the load. After April 1st check him out: http://www.kraghaus.com/>http://www.kraghaus.com  Fellows name is Peter and he restores sporterized Krags.  Looks to be a good aid for those of us whose eyesight isn't  what it used to be!

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madsenshooter posted this 22 February 2009

Middleweight bout coming soon.  Krag arena, date to be set by the weather and time off work!  Introducing the contestants from left to right, the Eagan MX3-30AR, a tapered boolit design by John Ardito.  He weighs in at 170.2gr, the heavyweight of the group.  In the center is the Belding and Mull 311169 a very old design affectionately known as the “Squibb” boolit, weighing in at 164.9gr.  Finally, the new kid on the block designed by our very own Ed Harris, the Lee  CTL312-1602R.  He weighs in at 157.2gr, the lightweight in the bout. To make things as equal as possible in this 3 boolit competition, all are gas checked, cast with the same 24bhn alloy, sized to .311", lubed with the same Carnauba Red lube, and will be fired with the same charge of 20gr of Blue Dot.  All are seated to touch the rifling and will still function through the magazine.   All will be fired from the same scoped Krag, I've nearly got the old Miller Kodiak Dreamount affixed, and I'll be using a Lyman Alaskan boosted to 8 power.  Anyone care to pick the winner?

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AMMOe posted this 09 February 2009

That's got the signs of a seriously accurate load! I have never played with “light” bullets in the Krag. I may have to give it another try as I have an RCBS 30-165-SIL which (if I'm remembering correctly) throated up nicely in the Douglas barreled Krag. Thanks for sharing the results. ~AMMOe

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madsenshooter posted this 09 February 2009

The cold spell finally broke here in NE IN, and I got a chance to try the 15grs of Blue Dot with the Ed Harris designed TL boolit for the 7.62x39 in my Krag.  As mentioned it fits the throat of my Krag very well and I'd estimate velocity at 1500-1600fps.  I got a pretty fair group at 70 yards using the 1901 sight.  Discounting a called flier caused by my preseason flinch, left me with 4 shot group with 1.5” horizontal dispersion and only about .5"vertical dispersion.  51 year old eyes get the blame for the horizontal dispersion.  I'll be stepping the load up a bit next, I've cast some at 25bhn and dip lubed in carnauba red.  I want to get to 2000fps to stay close to the graduations on the 1901 sight.  I had to go to the .285 front blade, the .410 blade supposedly standard with the 1901 sight, has me sitting the peep on the 300 yard mark to get on paper at 70 yards.  The shorter front blade has me below the 100 yard mark where I should be.  I snagged another Kodiak mount off ebay, no excuse for not scoping one or more of my Krags now!

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AMMOe posted this 01 February 2009

I made it out with the Reunited Krag today for 10 shots, at least. It took me 4 shots to find paper and the other six went into an inch and a half. These were the old style 30-180-FN over 42 grains of IMR 4350. Unfortunately, they didn't feed as the flat nose kept hanging up, but it was reassuring to see the gun still shot.~AMMOe

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AMMOe posted this 31 January 2009

Years ago I built a 30-40 Krag on a Krag action using a Douglas AG barrel. Under the duress of a failing marriage the gun was sold to help sponsor a trip for the missus and I about 12 years ago. I have often missed its .308” groove, .300” bore and narrow throat when I'm loading for my other Krags. This rifle loved bullet of .309” especially the RCBS 30-180-SP.

Well, this evening I was speaking to the fellow who bought this rifle and he confessed that he had only shot 20 rounds of factory Remington through it in all those 12 years and, to help offset the purchase of a new Pedersoli Trapdoor, he would be willing to sell it back to me for a slight profit. I paid $200 and found the rifle to look exactly as it had when I delivered it. In the butt were the plastic wrapped Redfield apertures I placed in there before the sale. This rifle isn't fancy but it surely shoots and is a deer killing machine with the right loads.

It isn't often you get a second go round with a good rifle. I am very happy tonight. ~AMMOe:dance

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AMMOe posted this 25 January 2009

I'd be sure interested in hearing the results.~AMMOe

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madsenshooter posted this 25 January 2009

Thanks for the input Andy. I think the P-14 would be the way to go. I knew the Arisaka wouldn't be easy to machine, and I'd have to turn the 30-40 rim down. Folks tell me I'd have to modify the Siamese mauser extractor. Though I like the NEF rifles, I want a magazine rifle for this project. The Obermeyer barrel is a monster, weighs nearly 6.5lbs and is 1.22” at the chamber end. Stainless steel, 27 3/8” long, 5R rifling with a lot of use left in it once rechambered. To get back to Krag loads though, I've got some Lee TL bullets that were designed for the 7.62x39 sitting on top of 15grs of Blue Dot that I'm going to give a go sometime soon, hoping for better results than what I got from the 308329. The nose fits in the rifling of the Krag very well, I think it will do better. Don't know if I can get enough lube to hang onto the Lee bullets for a trip down a 30” barrel,m but I'm going to try!

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AMMOe posted this 24 January 2009

I'd skip the Krag due to pressure limitations and the Arisaka is a pain in the keister to rebarrel..and when you're done you've got a clumsy action! (I got hired to rebarrel a pair of 6.5 Arisaka's into 7.62x39. Never again!) The P-i4 is a good choice provided you can lay hands on just the action. Carving up a good milsurp would be a crime at current prices. Another idea: a NEF .243 might work.~Andy

PS: I have a 25 Krag IMP on a P-14. HOT!

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madsenshooter posted this 24 January 2009

I have a 6mm/30-40AI reamer that some day is going to get together with a heavy Obermeyer barrel I bought for $10 off gunbroker. (Seller was a refuge from ebay, couldn't understand why his barrels weren't bring as much as on ebay).   I just hated stealing the barrel from him!  Can't decide on the action.  Siamese mauser, Krag, P14, 6.5 Arisaka.  At the moment, I'm leaning toward the P14.  I've got the cherrie for the Eagan 24W to use to have a mold made.  Don't you just love those someday things?  I only hope I have enough days to get them all done.

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AMMOe posted this 22 January 2009

I have a 1898 action and sporter stock that I was going to rebarrel into another 25 Krag using a cast off.257 Roberts barrel but I may build a standard 30-40 so I can play around with a wide variety of (smaller diameter) bullets. The Krag is certainly one of my favorite cast bullet cartridges.~AMMOe

PS: I think the 25 Krag is tied with the 25-20 as my favorite 25 cal lead cartridge!

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