32 Miller short

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  • Last Post 17 February 2008
charlie nz posted this 24 January 2008

Could some one please tell me what parent cartridge case is used to form the .32 Miller short. Thanks.

Charlie NZ.

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KAF posted this 24 January 2008

.357 Maximum

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Idaho Sharpshooter posted this 29 January 2008

 KAF,  the original 32 Miller (1.520") was, but Dean and Cyle were dissatisfied with the brass from Remington.  By time I designed the short with Dean at the 'nats in Golden in 1990 they had gone to the German's rimmed 222 Magnum case (5.56x50R?).  It's a funny story; I had just gotten my first photo on the cover of Precision Shooting Magazine about two months before (my 257 Banshee reamer and print) and Jim Cuthbert thanked me by giving me a two reamer set credit.  I am talking with Dean and Cyle and “Connie” Grimms at Golden the second day and Dean asks me for my opinion as to how it might be improved.  They were shooting as good or better groups as the 32-40, but the aggs were within a point or two.  I had just shot in my first Super Shoot, and was telling him about the then-new 6mm PPC that Ferris Pindell and Doc Palmisano had concocted.  My thought was to cut the OAL and increase loading density.  Dean says how much, I say try a quarter inch and see.  He and Cyle and Conrad all think that is wonderful, but question the issue of $$$ for a new two reamer set that may not work.  I mention that I DO have the reamer credit, and Keith Francis was the finest reamer cutter in the world at that time.  Dean agrees to build me a rifle, and away we go.  I order the reamers and tell them to ship to Dean.  The next April my wife and I drive to St Onge and sleep in the “Doll House". The next morning we drive out to Cherie's (Dean's wife) families ranch to their range with my new rifle and the tools.  We fit Cherie's 36X Unertl to my rifle, and start shooting with 9 gr of AA#9.  We went up each 10-shot target half a grain.  I was surprised that it only took a few clicks of elevation and windage to get her scope on for me.  At 10.5gr I shot a 248 and a 249, the best targets ever shot there.  About an hour later Lowell Hamilton rolls up and asks “...where's that new short version that shoots so well...?".  Everybody but my wife and I burst out laughing. When I ask what's up they confess that they had spent a couple hours the day before testing the midget.  They had had the same results as I did, the best set of 5 10-shot groups ever fired at that range had been with 9.5, 10, and 10.5gr.  They figured if it did not shoot, they would let me see that, and then rechamber for the 32 Miller.  Needless to say, that did not occur, and since that summer the short case has won better than 90% of the ISSA Regionals and every National but one.  When I think about the forty-four years I have been shooting and casting bullets and reloading, it makes me feel really proud to have contributed something worthwhile to the shooting industry.

Most of my good friends came from shooting, and hunting, great minds DO think alike!

Anyway, that's the story, and it was chronicled from winning the Media-Celebrity Match at the Tacoma Regional with a borrowed rifle to shooting with the wunderkind at the Nationals the next year.  They ran the entire series over nine issues of PS.  The story is there if you can get reprints.

Rich I just always liked to tinker...

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charlie nz posted this 01 February 2008

Thank you all for your fast response to my question .The reason for my inquiry is that I am planning to build a cast bullet rifle on the small Martini action I already have a 25/20 and a 30/20 built on the Cadet version of this action but now would like to shoot heavier bullets at about 1400 fps for plain base and 1600fps for gas check bullets ,also I am indeed blessed in owning 3 Don Eagan moulds including the spendid MX 3 Ardito bullet which out classes every thing else that I have shot in my 30 BR bench rifle.I am aware of the extraction problems that are inherent in the small Martini using heavy bullets but I will cut my cloth to suit.I considerd the 32 cal but will go with a 308 groove diameter barrell with a 12 or 14 inch twist.Could some one kindly advise me what small rimmed case woud best suit my needs I have been considering the 357 mag necked to 30 cal. Keep casting Charlie Ford.

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KAF posted this 02 February 2008

Last winter I did a rifle in .32 cal, using the 357 Max case.

Another member of the American Single Shot Rifle Association cameup with what he called a 32-30 Imp.  Not improved but a imp, like a elf or something.

It is necked down to 32 cal and shoots like a house afire. Easy to form the cases, a bit longer than the Miller shrort, but lessens the chances of high pressure spikes.

You might want to visit:

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/yabb.pl

And discuss some of your ideas.

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charlie nz posted this 02 February 2008

Thankyou Kav for the useful advise on the 32.cal and I know historicly the 32 has a stong tradition in US target shooting culture and I would love to have one .I have been playing with cast bullets for nearly half a century and I used to absolutely devour those articles and stories written by Lucian Cary and others about Harry Pope and his comtempories all those years ago.But I have decided to stay with 30.cal.for practical reasons i.e.plenty of match quality barrels on hand and .22 BSA target rifles for sale in New Zealand and they are amazing low priced ,I am always picking good ones up for under $200 in your money also I like the fast lock time and excellent triggers,of course for my purposes they have to be converted to center fire.

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30-30 Wesson posted this 03 February 2008

Charlie NZ,

Hi, there. I have been reading these posts with interest as I have just designed and made a .30 cartridge based on the .222 rimmed case. I have chambered it in a Schultz and Larson barrel with a .3075 groove dia. The barrel is fitted into a nice Low Wall Winchester of 1927 vintage.

Just today I managed a 1 5/8” group at 100m firing a Lee 150g GC bullit of 20:1 alloy, lubed with 50/50 beeswax- supafry.  The sights are 1/16” peep rear and a 5/8” Parker Hale tunnel front with small ring insert. The load was 12g of ADI 2205. 14g of the same powder gives me a 2.5” group.

The cases came from Bertram in Melbourn and were necked up in 3 stages,  .25, .27 and.30. I only lost one case when I tried to go from .25 to .30 and telescoped the shoulder. They are trimmed to 1.625” and I left the shoulder angle / diameter the same as the parent case. I was lucky in that they were not head stamped so I have put my own stamp on them and christened them 30-25-150.

I am really pleased with the performance I'm getting as the load testing has only just started. I'll try and get some photos posted soon if anyone is interested.

 

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 03 February 2008

So where can one purchase rimmed .221/222/223 brass?

  Midway lists (but it's not in stock, no backorders) the 222R.

 

 

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Fred Sinclair posted this 03 February 2008

Keith, try Huntington Die, http://www.huntingtons.com/cases.html>http://www.huntingtons.com/cases.html they did have 5.6 X 50 Rimmed in RWS brand. These are like a 50mm long 222 Mag case. Would be worth calling them, they may have others too. Fred

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30-30 Wesson posted this 03 February 2008

TRK,

Bruce Bertram in Melbourne, Australia can be contacted at “ [email protected]” He had plenty of .222 rimmed in stock a couple of months ago and does mail order.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 03 February 2008

OK, I admit to owning 4 or 5 computers but it still AMAZES me - in the span of but a few hours two answers to my question - one from halfway around the world and the other from a fellow whom I've never met but was told it was his name on a custom pistol of mine - a 7mm International in a Remington XP100!  (It may not be the same one, but I'm STILL amazed.) :dude:  

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30-30 Wesson posted this 03 February 2008

What do they say? Ask and you shall recieve? Here is a pix of my new baby.

Hey, TRK. I may be from halfway 'round the known world but the other bloke is all the way 'round, if you go the long way!

 

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Fred Sinclair posted this 03 February 2008

TRK, same one. That pistol is near antique by now. Ahh... those were the good ole days. To build those pistols I bought XP barreled actions direct from Remington for around $75 each and a little less for 5 or more. Fred

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Fred Sinclair posted this 03 February 2008

Tony, didn,t mean to ignore you. I had a fade when thinking about what I could do with a bucket full of thoes $75 XPs today.

Tell us about that pretty little critter. Fred

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30-30 Wesson posted this 04 February 2008

Fred, I started out looking for an existing cartridge that was slightly larger capacity than the 30-20 chamber I had cut in the barrel of my low wall. I didn't like the job I had done, even though it shot ok, and I wanted a dedicated CB rifle. Couldn't find anything modern in Cartridges of the World, the nearest to my ideal was the old      30-30 Wesson. I wanted something with the same or similar rim and body size but slightly longer, than the 32.20, so It would comfortably shoot a 150g bullet.

I had seen that the .357 maximum could be used for making 30-30 Wesson cases but still weren't long enough and then I found an old .222 rimmed case in my collection. The .222 rimmed was very popular downunda years ago, being fitted into surplus Martini's and Sportco also chambered them as well in their neat little bolt action. When I measured it up it had all the answers so I went to work ordering new cases, making tools and dies.

Starting by making the FL sizing die, after expanding the necks, I sized a couple then made a dummy round and made the chambering reamer to suit. The neck clearance is only .002” over a loaded round and the throat is cut to suit the Lee 150g projectile. Bullits are sized to .3085” and crimped into the case. 14g of ADI 2205  fills the case almost to the shoulder, so there is little air space and it is still a mild pressure load.

As yet I haven't chronographed any loads but I'm hoping to get the magical 1500-1600 fps range as this seems to be what everyone on this forum thinks works best. Hopefully it wont be raining next time I get a chance to shoot it and will be able to set the chrono up.

 

 

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X Shooter posted this 04 February 2008

At one time, Claude Roderick designed a .32/.222 Rimmed which he and others shot at SS matches.  I once had a  photo copy of 50 groups  that he and Dick Strite shot, over a several week period.  I averaged these and cae up with a figure just at .5"  Knowing Rod these were consecutive targets with no bads ones discarded.  Rod even had Hart make him a few special barrels which, I think, had shallower grooves.  I had one of these blanks but gave it to a friend who had his own shop.  This chambering slowly died off.  You might ask on the ASSRA board to see if an information is available.  This all took place well over 25 years ago and all of the above people have died.

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Antietamgw posted this 17 February 2008

Would any of you folks have a measurement on the 5.6X50 rim size? I've been using .357 Max in a Hepburn 32-30 and could stand a little larger rim diameter. Thanks!

Keep your plowshare and your sword. Know how and when to use them.

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KAF posted this 17 February 2008

5.6 x 50 mm magnum? -  Rim Dia, .376"

Base Dia  .375"

Source, COW 6th edition.

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Paul Pollard posted this 17 February 2008

The 5.6x50 Rimmed Magnum has a rim diameter of .429", according to Ken Howell's book. There is also the 5.6x50 (rimless) whose rim diameter is .378. Looks like the .357 Max has the larger rim diameter at .440.

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