alloy and as cast dia.

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  • Last Post 16 March 2008
ubetcha posted this 19 January 2008

Will the use of a different bullet alloy make the as cast diameter of the bullet smaller or larger?I just measured the throat on the cylinder of my Ruger SBH .44 mag and have a reading of .431.All my mould are .429 if I'm reading the mould numbers correctly.I first tried a Lee 240 gr mould and used a 50/50 mix of lino/ww with about approx 4 inch piece of round lead free solder.The bullets came out of the mould filled out looking beautifully with the use of the solder,but fell right though the cylinder throats with no effort.Then I tried a Lyman 300 gr mould and again they came out looking fantastic and this time this will not go into the throats.I then sized a few of these in a lyman sizer using a .431 die.now they fall through the throats with no effort.Should I leave the 300 gr bullets as cast and use a liquid lube such as the Lee liquid alox and just run the bullets into the sizing die just enough to seat the gas check ? The as cast diameter of the 300 gr are about .431.5 to .432 but seem to change depending on where i measure around the bullet.Or can I lap the sizing die out to .432 and use the lyman sizer to lube.

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CB posted this 19 January 2008

Did you mic the bullets after you ran one through the .431 Lyman sizing die? That will tell you if you need to lap out the die..

As for the mould you have that casts 429, why not try beagling the mould? Use some self adhesive aluminum tape, should give you a couple of thousandths...

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ubetcha posted this 20 January 2008

I mic'ed a 300 gr this morning and it measured .430.If i decide to lap the die,how do I go about it.I will try and do this myself or try and get one of my sons to help me.They are both tool and die makers but are both quite busy.I do have a drill press and drill press vise.I could make some wooden jaw pads with a round notch in both pads slightly smaller in diameter to hold the die.

I have a couple of different RCBS 44 mag moulds in 240 gr.One is a 240 gr swc and the other is a 240 gr sil .I will cast some in these moulds as soon as it warms up out in the garage.I think it's below O degrees out there right now. Another thing I just thought of is I only live about 8 miles from Hartford WI and about 12 miles from Lee Precision.Maybe if I talk nice to them ,they could make a .432 push though lube die for me.I think in there catalog they can make custom sizeing die for about 29.00.

I take it that beagling is adding tape to the suface of the blocks to space them slightly apart.If needed where can I get this tape

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CB posted this 20 January 2008

You can either lap the die with a reamer the correct size if you have one, or, take a piece of dowel rod, wrap some fine wet sandpaper around it securing it to the rod with some tape and then chuck it up in a hand drill add a little atf and hone it out...

Stop and check often to see if you are close to your desired diameter.

Being that close to Lee is great and they will make you a custom push through die, I have several of those. They aren't very good for gas checking though.

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CB posted this 20 January 2008

Yep, you have a dilemma. It is tough sometimes to get the CB diameters correct with the cylinders and the bore of the barrel, get them all in sync. You didn't mention what the barrel groove diameter is? Stuffing a .431” CB down a .429” barrel will give a little higher pressure and distortion to the CB with a little less accuracy. You could probably shoot straight wheel weights with the solder added.

I have rolled under size diameter bullets on top of a soft mat with a fairly new sharp flat Mill Bas tard or Double Cut file, engraving a knurl around the circumference. This increases diameter .001” easily and up to .006” if pressed down with more pressure and repeatedly. A knurled .431” CB would engage more easily into a .429” barrel. The knurl also helps to hold tumble lubes. Hope this helps?...................Dan

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ubetcha posted this 20 January 2008

I have not measure the bore as of yet.I'm first learning to tackle the cylinder now.I had mentioned when I first joined CBA that I had  been casting a long time but never learned to cast to fit the guns properly, so now it's like starting over.Can I drive a 45 cal round ball into the muzzle end and out the forcing cone with a plastic hammer and get proper results?Or can I cast some 44's in soft lead,flatten them slightly and push them through

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CB posted this 20 January 2008

Ya, I've done that with a 45 round ball. Grease it up good and whack it with a plastic or bronze hammer. It'll shave a ring of lead off, then drive it on through with a bronze rod. You could cast a few Pb bullets if you wanted to, that'll work.

I've know a couple of guys back in the 80's who had match cylinders made that more or less were in spec, for competition revolver shooting. Doubt that people would pay the price for that now days. You should be able to work around it...............Dan

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ubetcha posted this 21 January 2008

Ok.To the best of my ability,came up with throat sizes of [email protected]@.431--and [email protected] cast some 44 cal w/c with lead and slugged the barrel and came up with.429.What would be my recommended bullet size to use with this combination.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 January 2008

If you have a mould which drops .432 as-cast, unsized, I would lube with Lee Liquid Alox and shoot them that way. The larger bullet will raise pressure somewhat, so you need to back off 10% or so from maximum loads, but velocity will be normal using less powder, which is a good thing. I load the Saeco #441 this way in my Ruger .44 Magnum. I like loads which are less than maximum anyway and use either 16 grs. of #2400 or 7 grs. of Bullseye.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 23 January 2008

ubetcha,                            A FINE TUNING THING

After you get a couple of established loads shooting well, note which cylinders are .431” and .4315” as you shoot the groups and see if the small cylinders open up the group from the .432” cylinders. A cylinder with just one small diameter is easier to see go out than your 1/2 and 1/2 , or 3, 2, & 1 variations. 

Anyway, you can polish out the tight cylinders by wrapping a fine emery cloth around a smaller brush like a .38. Just a couple of twists at a time inside of the cylinder, go lightly as you don't want to go over .432".  Shoot it some more and slug the cylinders again to see how they feel. This can be an on going thing over several shooting sessions to even up the small cylinders to the 3 bigger ones. I quit on the smaller side instead of going equal-to or over.

I've also evened up small cylinders to one side or the other to bring the polished side over off the tight side of the latch timing. You need a test rod for this to tell if the cylinder is timed a hair off....................Dan

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DonH posted this 16 March 2008

ubetcha wrote: I have not measure the bore as of yet.I'm first learning to tackle the cylinder now.I had mentioned when I first joined CBA that I had  been casting a long time but never learned to cast to fit the guns properly, so now it's like starting over.Can I drive a 45 cal round ball into the muzzle end and out the forcing cone with a plastic hammer and get proper results?Or can I cast some 44's in soft lead,flatten them slightly and push them through When I slugged my Ruger SBH Bisley .44 mag, I did the throats, breech end of the barrel and muzzle. Groove diameter was smaller at the muzzle than at breech end. This may not be of concern to you but thought I would mention it. It is a condition I was happy to find and determined how I sized my bullets. The gun was intended for hunting and was loaded with hard bullets at near max. Bullets were sized to groove dia just ahead of the forcing cone. This was a tick under throat diameter but the gun is highly accurate with this setup. 

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