.327 Federal Magnum

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  • Last Post 09 December 2008
billwnr posted this 26 December 2007

I see there's a longer version of the .32 H&R Mag coming out and I wonder when it will be chambered in the Contender.   I would think that a re-throat of a Contender barrel and it would be real good for cast bullets.

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bruce posted this 26 December 2007

There has been some discussion of this new round in both .32 Popguns and also the topic of “Why do manufacturers believe that a successful new cartridge should make your hand sting and your ears ring” or something like that.

Perhaps the “POP” is a bit more than the pop we are looking for?

I may end up purchasing one of the new Ruger SP101s chambered for this round.

Bruce

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billwnr posted this 26 December 2007

The .32H&R is a bit snappy in the SSM. What I want to see is the new one come out in a Contender. I think the case length should be just about right for 150 grain cast bullets.

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linoww posted this 26 December 2007

billwnr wrote: The .32H&R is a bit snappy in the SSM. What I want to see is the new one come out in a Contender. I think the case length should be just about right for 150 grain cast bullets.

I had one with the shorter 4-5/8” (?) barrel and thats the truth!!.It was in my youth (yoot to you New Yorkers)and I had to shoot hot loads and I hadnt thought of loading a “magnum” down.It also was very hard to get cases in and out of the undersized(IMHO) loading gate.My .357 BH was a better deal and cheaper to shoot so I got rid of the SSM.I foung one of the Bisley 32's a year ago with a longer 6" barrel for a buddy and it is a sweeeeeet gun.I shot one of my smallest ever iron sight groups with it at his 20 yd range.it looked like 6  shots into one 44 caliber hole,I never shoot pistols that well.It still was a hassle getting cases in and out though.I have first refusal if he sells that gun regardless.

I would like to try the .327 Fed. case in a Ruger #1 set up for plainbase loads.I have a reamer for 30 x 357 mag I had planned to use,but a straight case and standard dies is a better deal.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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carlo posted this 28 January 2008

Right. Since I signed  up here specifically to talk about this new cartridge, I guess I'll jump in, if no-one objects.

Been reloading and casting bullets for quite a few years for .32 Smith and Wesson Long, so I have a bit of experience already with this particular type.

It's kind of interesting that in order to prevent use of the new, higher pressure cartridge in the “weak” H and R magnum pistols, we have a cartridge that was already longer than it needed to be, increased in length yet again. I have no doubt that if I wanted to, I could match the H and R magnum cartridge, and maybe even the new Federal cartridge just by loading the Smith and Wesson Long to capacity with a slower burning powder as used in the two magnum cartridges. At one point, I spent some time talking to people at Bullberry and other barrel manufacturers about getting a custom barrel for a T-C Contender chambered in Smith and Wesson Long that would allow me to explore the potential of this cartridge without risking damage to my Smith and Wesson J-frame (keeping in mind that since modern S&W Long cartridges are loaded to be safe in the old top-break “lemon squeezer"  revolvers, I've gone somewhat beyond listed ballistics already without ill-effect). Unfortunately, the makers of T-C barrels I've talked to only offer .308 diameter barrels. Seems to be counter-productive towards exeperimenting with higher-pressure loads to be stuffing a bullet that's sized to .312 into a .308 bore. I understand, from reading comments about this new Federal Cartridge elsewhere, that new pistols for  it use .308 bore barrels. Does this mean  that it's really a .30 caliber cartridge? I haven't seen anything  so far that specifies the bullet diameter for this cartridge.

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Dale53 posted this 30 January 2008

Carlo; I believe that you can get an SSK barrel (.312") chambered in the .32 caliber of your choice. I bought one about a year ago in .32 H&R Magnum for my Contender carbine (22” barrel). I had some eye problems last year requiring surgery so did not get to shoot it as much as I had planned. “God willing and the creeks don't rise,” I'll do “serious” work with it this year. Give J.D. Jones a call at SSK Industries and see if he can't supply what you need:

http://www.sskindustries.com/

Dale53

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6pt-sika posted this 30 January 2008

bruce wrote: I may end up purchasing one of the new Ruger SP101s chambered for this round.

I bought one of these SP101's in the 327 Fedral caliber :cool:

However I have yet to shoot it ! My dealer has not been able to get me any factory ammo , as I want the brass for reloading !

Sure I could borrow some 32 MAG ammo that I have loaded for the Marlin or the little Single Six , but I bought this thing to shoot the 327 Federal in ! So I'll just wait awhile ;)

Incidently it is not my intention to use this round as a cast bullet round ! I have a Single Six in 32 MAG which I already do that with !

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carlo posted this 10 February 2008

Very cool. Thank you Dale. You just made me glad I joined this forum. Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at their site right now. Oh, and do you mind if I ask how much you payed for your barrel? That sounds almost exactly like what I'm looking for.

Dale53 wrote: Carlo; I believe that you can get an SSK barrel (.312") chambered in the .32 caliber of your choice. I bought one about a year ago in .32 H&R Magnum for my Contender carbine (22” barrel). I had some eye problems last year requiring surgery so did not get to shoot it as much as I had planned. “God willing and the creeks don't rise,” I'll do “serious” work with it this year. Give J.D. Jones a call at SSK Industries and see if he can't supply what you need:

http://www.sskindustries.com/>http://www.sskindustries.com/

Dale53

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Dale53 posted this 11 February 2008

Carlo; It HAS been a year so I don't remember exactly. However, I believe it was somewhere around $400.00. You had best check with J.D.

Dale53

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6pt-sika posted this 27 February 2008

Here are some pics of my little Ruger SP101 in 327 Federal !

 

 

And another picture of the little revolver inside a Bianchi “Black Widow #5” right hand tan holster !

 

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6pt-sika posted this 27 February 2008

For comparisons sake .

My Ruger Single Six 32 MAG and my Ruger SP101 327 Federal :cool:

 

Although I have none of the 327 Federal cases , I do have the one case they now send with the revolvers . So here it is beside a 32 H&R MAG case for comparison .

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 19 March 2008

Hi, I just got my new A.Rifleman, and after reading that 9 pages of agonized, whining, repetitious review of the .327 Fed mag cartridge, I had a migraine and nasea attack.

Jeepers, at first my thought was ” Hey, a modern 32-20, with heavy duty brass .. neato ... but after another 45 minutes of reading the same paragraph ( I think ) over and over .... ( ok, I kept dozing off, or was it going into a coma ... ) ... the wifey had to put the paddles on my chest to get me back ...

Dang!  and the _ Rifleman _ had been getting better the last few years ....   I long ago cancelled my Guns and Ammo subscriptions ...


Far better than a 38 special ?? who cares?            as good as a .357 Maggy ....  for what?  Insult me, thats what the article done did .... phew ....

Don't get me wrong, guys, I think the .327 Fed brass is a fun thing, but I just hate to have my nose shoved into it ... ....

Hmmm... wonder how it would work on a Ruger 1 and that aging Lilja 308 barrel I have in the back ....   would it get me respect offhand at the local tin can buster matches ?

just blowing off steam, ken campbell, iowa

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Dale53 posted this 20 March 2008

Ken; It is funny you panning that American Rifleman article. I had exactly the opposite reaction. I thought it was one of the most interesting articles I have read in the “mostly pitiful” AM in several years.

When the .327 was announced I thought “H0-Hum"... I have been a fan of the .32 S&W L and the .32 H&R Mag for some time shooting several thousand reloads (mostly S&W L as I shoot ,32's mostly at targets). I cast my own bullets so the cost is less than .22's and for some reason I find centerfires more satisfying to shoot. The .32's are  better small game rounds in my carefully considered opinion.

At any rate, after reading the article, I may change my mind. However, I am NOT going to order one until someone is making good brass for them. Federal seriously let down their customers when they quit making components for consumers right after the .32 H&R Magnum hit the streets. Further, the brass in their early factory loads was JUNK. I will NOT make that mistake again (buy a gun and then find I can't get components). If Starline starts making brass in this caliber, then I might seriously consider it.

Dale53

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Ed Harris posted this 20 March 2008

I too was disappointed in the American Rifleman article on the .327 Federal.

Even though Ruger is trying to sell the SP101 as a “belly gun,"  it weighs 28 ounces, has a 3-inch barrel and adjustable sights, so it really isn't.  It is a “sort of” carry piece, which is a bit too large, a bit too heavy, with too many projections and sharp corners for a smooth draw.  It's more of a wannabe “kit gun.”

So doing the accuracy testing at SEVEN YARDS is a joke!  Who are they kidding? In the old days the only reason we'd shoot at 7 yards was because the gun was such a dog that showing 25 yard results would be embarassing to the manufacturer.  It was a nice way of saying, “this thing is really a piece of crap and nobody in their right mind should buy it." 

To treat a quality Ruger product in that way is an insult. If I were Ruger's advertising manager I wouldn't be too pleased.  I'd be sure they had enough ammo and support to do a thorough test which showcased the product in its best form.  Nothing quick, dirty and slapdash as was done here.  

So, the author's excuse was “not having enough ammo."  When I was on the Tech staff we dealt with this problem all the time.  

First, you can RELOAD the empty brass!

Second, you test other ammos which people can actually GET, and which the manufacturer says will work in it: .32 HRM, .32 S&W Long, .32 S&W.  I'd try .32 ACP too, just because I want to know.  Potential users will want to know what they can expect for accuracy and velocity with these ammos too, compared to the .32 HRM SP101?  I would have done that, especially since there is only one source of ammo and no other brass yet.  This is kind of basic, duuhhhhhhhhhhhh.

So what if there's no load data?  A competent technician experiments carefully.

You chronograph the factory load.  You pull a factory round down.  You weigh the powder charge. You examine the powder under a microscope and make your best guess as to how much they loaded of "something like..." 

Then you carefully assemble a few test reloads using the “best fit” of off-the-shelf components you can get.  Gee, you might even try cast bullets? 

You put the revolver in the Ransom Rest, shoot a few over the chronograph, grab some accuracy data while you do this, so you don't waste any ammo.  For the first “guess and by God” rounds, good safety procedure requires using a long string to pull the trigger until you know you won't blow anything up.  Then you adjust the charge to approximate factory ballistics, if you can without adverse indicators.  You then party on...

When I was on the NRA Tech Staff tech we were faced all the time with a situation where there was not enough factory ammo in a new caliber to conduct a thorough test or no Ransom rest inserts which fit the new gun.  We never let that deter us. 

We improvised reloads as best as we could.   We took blank Ransom Rest inserts, froze the rubber in liquid nitrogen so that it could be inlet them in a milling machine, then bedded them tightly to the frame with Brownell's Acraglas gel and shot the darned thing.  No brainer!

These so-called “field editors” they use today (with one or two notable exceptions)  are “amateurs.”  They do try, but most really don't have adequate resources and they are not allowed enough time under advertising pressure publication deadlines to do a “proper” write up in the way I would have been tasked to do so back in the 1970s and 80s.  That is the fault of today's NRA which is more interested in fund raising and advertising dollars than publishing an informative technical magazine.

The NRA no longer wants to support an in-house Tech staff of mechanical engineers, ex law enforcement and military people who understand small arms.  It would rather pay much less money to well meaning, enthusiastic, but less competent “wannabe writers” who work cheap.  They don't obtain adequate industry support, or permit adequate turn around time on articles or reimburse enough in support expenses for field editors to “do it right,” that is, presuming they know how.

The news stand gun rags today are whore mongers whose mission is to sell the advertisers product.  Only The Fouling Shot can be completely honest because it doesn't depend upon advertising revenue for its very survival and our publication is by the members and for the members, being responsible only to the members - like the NRA used to be before it changed from a membership organization to a fund raising engine. If this seems cynical, it is, because I've seen it happen before my eyes, been here and done that, and left the collective to resume life in the real world.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 20 March 2008

Ed What do you think about Gun Tests magazine? Are they objective? Are they one of the notable few you mention?

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Ed Harris posted this 20 March 2008

Jeff Bowles wrote: Ed What do you think about Gun Tests magazine? Are they objective? Are they one of the notable few you mention?

The “few” I refered to are a couple of the gun writers and NRA contributing editors who do a pretty good job in spite of the constraints they exist under.

Gun Facts is objective for as much as they report, which is only a “taste.” They are still enthusiastic wannabees and are not a “Consumer Reports” type of organization able to conduct a thorough safety assessment and performance test.  They are very limited in the what they do and they could do much better in terms of use of standard engineering test methods and procedures.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 March 2008

Hi Ed ... the following might be contrued as a bit of a ” suck-up ” (g) but no sooner had I put down ( threw down, actually ) my ARifleman ... than my wifey mentioned that my latest _The Fouling Shot _ had arrived ....  damn !  great timeing, I needed that.

Anyway, what a great relief .. what an issue .... and your great article on developing   ” Guard  ” loads .... hey you captured the whole fun thing of shootin !!  was near a 9.8 ...   thank you thank you thank you ...  and there were several other very interesting articles also ....

........ and re: AR, not since Col. Whelen would anybody dare write anything about trying Cream Of Wheat and blowing a hole in their garage ...   K. Mollohan keeps writing about his bizarre experiments, and I keep  eating them up ....  with a name like Ken, maybe he is one of my cousins ... there are quite a few of them around, from down here in the northern ozarks and all ...

Anyway, today everything is just fine, and again, the idea of a modernized .32-20 is just fine with me ... I used to shoot a genuine M92 in 32-20, usually with Ideal 3118 Hollow Point .. devastating on feral cats ... oops, ...

just some thoughts, now back to lurking ; ken campbell, iowa

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carlo posted this 20 March 2008

I just read the  review of the new cartridge in the latest issue of American Rifleman.

I'm very impressed with the test specs.

They claim just over 1300 fps from the new Ruger revolver, and about 2000 fps from an unspecified rifle length barrel.  That's pretty close to the M1 Carbine. I wonder what velocity the Carbine round produced in those Ruger single action revolvers they used to make?

I may be ordering  a 20 inch barrel for my Contender in this cartridge.  I can always use my .32 Longs in it as well.

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ArtR32-20 posted this 23 March 2008

I am new to this forum. I have been a fan of the 32-20 for years and i have shot/plinked with a 30 carbine since I was a kid. Aren't they just reinventing those two cartridges? And can anyone tell me if the bullets in the 327 mag are actually .308?

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Ed Harris posted this 24 March 2008

ArtR32-20 wrote: I am new to this forum. I have been a fan of the 32-20 for years and i have shot/plinked with a 30 carbine since I was a kid. Aren't they just reinventing those two cartridges? And can anyone tell me if the bullets in the 327 mag are actually .308? NEGATIVE!  They are .312"  same as the .32 H&R Magnum.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 24 March 2008

While I am a .32-20 fan and have a Savage Model 23 and a Marlin 1894CL I must admit the .32 H&R Magnum and now the .327 Federal make more sense for a small game rifle. The brass is a bit easier to work with.

I have been a fan of .32 caliber small game rifles for a long time. My wife and I have a 24� TC barrel and a Marlin 1894 in .32 H&R Magnum. These are two fine small game rifles.

I became seriously interested in these rifles while I was in Vietnam. General Vernon E. MeGee wrote and article in the April  1971 issue of Shooting Times entitled “.32 S&W Long is Rifle Fodder too. This story was about his Ruger No. 1 barreled for the .32 S&W Long cartridge. If you are a Cav. guy you will remember Gen. MeGee for his contributions to the book: “Small Wars.â€? If you are a long time reader of the American Rifleman you will remember his articles on the .25-20.

 

 

With the good Generals article on my mind I was pretty excited when Ed Harris wrote his article for the American Rifleman: The .32 Lives!� This article pictures Ellis Lea holding his Remington 788 barreled for the .32 S&W Long.

 

Ross Seyfried wrote: “.32 H&R Mag, New Combo for the ‘80's.â€? This is a serious reloading article dealing with the Ruger No. 3 and the Ruger Single Six Bisley.

 

Ed's recent articles on the .32 H&R Mag. have been great fun to read.

Charter Arms tells me they will have a 4â€? Kit Gin out by the end of this Month and that will probably be my first .327 Federal  We have a 4â€? S&W M-631 Kit Gun that is a lot of fun. With 115-grain cast bullets it will bring a porcupine out of a tree with a lung shot.  

Slim

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