7X57mm loads

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  • Last Post 11 April 2008
PAK posted this 15 September 2007

Hello all,

    New to these forums and tried using the search function but came up blank so thought I'd just pose the question.     Is anyone loading the 7X57 with cast bullets?  I have a Ruger No.1A in that caliber and have been trying to get it to shoot with jacketed and cast.  No great luck yet but have been doing some serious tuning and hopefully it will come around.  The No.1's are unholy little beasties to get accuracy out of.     The cast bullet I've been using is the SAECO 072.  I've tried 4198, 4227, 4759, Herco, Red Dot, Unique, 2400, 4895, and N135.  I have read Mr. Harris's article on loads for the military rifles and he stresses that his Red Dot load of 13 grains is for the 30 caliber to 8MM rifles.  I have used up to 13 grains of Red Dot with no pressure problems that I can see, I started at 10 grains and worked up slowly.  Is Red Dot a recommended powder for this caliber?     I have also read of poor barrel life with Red Dot and cast (or jacketed) bullets.  Is there any truth to this?  I looked Red Dot up on the burning rate charts, which I realize are a pretty good account of what might have been, and it seems pretty fast but I have used it in the 30-06 and other full size military rifles with good accuracy.  Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to burn out a prewar M70 carbine barrel with it.  ;)

Thanks,

Phil

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RicinYakima posted this 15 September 2007

Well, all I can do is tell you about my experiences, as I bought as used Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in 7X57 to shoot in the Light Production Class last year.

The throat is 0.289 for almost a half inch in front of the chamber. So I am using the RCBS 160 grain Silhouette bullet, as it cast the biggest size of my three 7mm moulds. Alloy is WW+2% tin. I am hand lubeing them as I haven't found a sizer die that big yet. The gas check it seated and crimped in a 0.285 die just enough to stay on the bullet. This is a tricky operation. The bullet is seated just down enough to cover the lube over the gas check shank. Powder charge is 14.5 grains of A2400 and it is just able to make 1 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards, and that is my best load!

My first suggestion is to quit trying a bunch of powders, and find a bullet that fits the throat. If your throat is as big as mine, and as long, finding a bullet that fits will be the first challenge.

Ric

 

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CB posted this 15 September 2007

Phil Try using some N133.. I use that in one of the converted mil rifles I got down at my nephews in Phoenix. I think it is like 26.4 grains.. It is a bit faster than N135. I get 1” groups at 100 yds with a LBT 165 gr sp bullet. Aound 1750 fps I think. His throat is a bit odd also, I have Stillwell open up a .285 die for me to .288. Works like a charm.

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PAK posted this 16 September 2007

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the tip pn N133, I'll give it a try. The throat isn't nearly as long as the one in Ric's rifle and fortunately measures about .2855” as I recall. My size die is .285” and I size the bullets nose first, then lube in a separate operation. All bullets are segregated by weight. I may have to try a different bullet but the SAECO is just such a doggone good looking bullet and measures right for the barrel so I hate to give up on it yet. It looks like a smaller version of the 311/314299, which shoots very well in about anything I try it in.

Ric,

My apologies, I guess I should have given some of my history. I am new to this forum but have been loading cast bullets since about 1957, having started shooting in about 1947. I have made literally hundreds of throat and bore slugs and casts in that time. My best shooting cast bullet rifle is a Ruger No.3 that I trued up and made a barrel for when I was making barrels for the old MATCO shop. I chambered it for the 8.15x46R cartridge and breech seated it has aggregated in the .3 moa for a long time. The mold is one that Richard Hoch made for me and weighs about 225 grains. Smallest group was .162” at 100 yards at Aurora, Illinois back in about 1986 or so. I haven't shot it much since the late 80's. But I have no doubt that it will still shoot better than I can hold. I have been concentrating, of late, on the rifles and calibers I grew up with. The 30-06, 7.9x57, 7.7 Japanese, 303 British, and the aforementioned 7x57, and when I can stand the self inflicted mental anguish, some of the WWI/WWII era 6.5mm's. Its a lot of fun just experimenting with these rifles and cartridges, not having to worry about competeing, which I did for 31 years.
In most of my cast bullet shooting for the WWI/WWII era cartridges of 30/32 caliber I have pretty much settled on 24 grains of IMR4198 and 20/21 grains of SR4759. Those two loads have served to shoot some pretty good aggregates in all the above calibers. Mr. Harris's load of 13 grains of Red Dot works really well also, and I have likewise tried his recommendation on 2400 with some success. However, when success with proven formulae eludes me, I am not above trying new ideas. Thus, the long list of propellents. I really am not ready to give up on the Ruger barrel yet, but for a backup I have already fit and chambered a Remington M40XB barrel to 7x57 and am holding it in readiness. It's good to have an accurate lathe and hatful of chambering reamers on hand.

Good shooting all, thanks again for the tips.

Phil

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DonH posted this 18 September 2007

Hey Phil; Hope you find success with the 7x57 as it is one of my favorites. I will watch this thread with much interest as i have been contemplating shooting cast in mine too.

By the way, I'm just up the road from you (FW).

Don

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PAK posted this 18 September 2007

Hi Don,

Thats GREAT! I shoot at the Wabash club, have you ever been there? We'll have to get together for a range day some time for sure. Too few casters in our area, or I've never met them.

I've played with the 7x57 on and off since the fifties but with little dedication. Now that I have a bit more time I'm taking it up in earnest. I have reamers for the 7x57 and 280 Rem, thought I'd start with the little cartridge first.

Take care,

Phil

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1Shirt posted this 25 September 2007

Am about a month back from a 10 day hunt in Numibia, Africa.  9 animals, ranges from 125 yds on zebra to 430 (Ranged) on Heartabeast, all with 7x57, 77Ruger (early w/tang safety).  One of the great cartridges of the world in my opinion.  Have just started shooting cast in it, and am satisfied that it will be all I expect or hope for accuracy wise with same.  Have a number of 1” groups at 50 yds, and a few under 2” at 100, but have not played enough with what I hope to be the most accurate load down the road.  Am hoping that load will come with the 4759 Clone as it is still reasonably priced.

1Shirt:coffee

 

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DonH posted this 26 September 2007

1Shirt;

What twist does your Ruger barrel have? Just curious.

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1Shirt posted this 26 September 2007

Rod and tight patch tried three times all come out right at 1 in 10".  Was shooting 162 gr. Hor. SPBT.  Shoots 175's just as well.

1Shirt!:coffee

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Bluedot posted this 10 April 2008

Hi Phil,

As I scan this forum, I see your statement “I have been concentrating, of late, on the rifles and calibers I grew up with. The 30-06, 7.9x57, 7.7 Japanese,” that might help me to avoid a whole bunch of %^&^&.  I am working with a 7.7 Jap, Chrome bore that  slugs .314. Bbl is 31 inches long and I have good sights, good stock, Timney trigger.  I had it shooting pretty well a number of years  ago in SoCal where there was a bunch shooting these old Mil.Surplus guns with cast bullets, at the old Santiago Gun Club, but in the years, lost data & etc.  I have a .313 sizer in my Lyman 450 (probably from the old days) and a few different moulds and but find nothing near the .314 that the barrel slugs out at.  I just want this gun to   shoot good enough this fall  where this 70 year old shooter can show up some grand nephews on an antelope hunt. (Last year I did it with a Contender pistol in 7-30).  Any suggestions Phil, would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Jim

Southern Nevada

 

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PAK posted this 11 April 2008

Hi Jim,

The 7.7 is one of my all time favorite cartridges.  Have you checked the throat diameter on yours?  Most of the throats in them will go about .316” or better, I have one that is .318".  You need to get the bullet up to throat size for best accuracy.  The Cast Boolits forum had a group buy last year for a Lee six cavity mold that pours about .318” and it is the best mold I have to date.  The Lyman 314299 Beagled out to .316” is another great bullet.  I've found several powders that work well.

Red Dot  13 grains IMR4198  24 grains SR4759  20/21 grains

My rifle is built of parts that I collected through the years.  It has a Lyman 57 rear sight and a Williams ramp up front with a post.  Not ideal for these old eyes but still it shoots pretty good.  The rifle is glass bedded and the trigger pull is in the 3 to 3 1/2 pound range.

If I can help you in any other way on your project just let me know.  Us old farts gotta stay ahead of the pups any way we can.

Cheers,

Phil

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