223 UPDATE

joeb33050 wrote: From 2001 to 2014 there were 162 PRO entries at the CBA NM. Of these, 86 = 53% were Savage rifles. Next was Rem, 43, 27%.I doubt that Savage makes 22 barrels that shoot jacketed but not cast. They seem to make barrels that shoot jacketed in all calibers accurately. And 30 cal that shoot cast accurately.My error was, perhaps, in believing that it is reasonably easy to find 22 CB accuracy at 100 yards without evidence that others, other than John, had done so.Maybe everybody's shooting big 22 CB groups, and talking about the wallet groups.   On a more technical note, on the NOE 227-80. The bullet won't go in the gun unless almost all the base in below the neck. Crimping so that the top band is out of the case sorta allows the ctg to go in with a hearty push. The GC shank and GC don't match well, it takes fiddling/expanding to get the check started on the shank straight, and force to seat the GC. Seating GCs is a separate step, has to be for me. Seating GCs force expands noses .0003"-.001", magnifying the chambering effort. Lee sizing dies don't seat GCs correctly, 22 or 30, for me. However, Lee sizing reduces the bumping when sizing, so  use it. Both 22 and 30. The process is: Inspect, seat GC, lube in the 450 in a .228” die, size in Lee .226” die.For some reason LBT, NOE and NEI all make GC shanks too big for Horn. GCs-GCs will go on, but fiddling is required. Lyman knows the secret dimension.The accuracy problem may be that the bullet nose is too big. This is common problem with 415, 646, LBT etc. So, it's the gun's problem. So, I'm shooting jacketed to try to get a barrel leade opened up a bit. Either shooting CF 22 cast accurately is very difficult, or I've found a set of barrels and equipment that's uniquely bad.  Let's see those targets with 5, 5 shot 100 yard measured groups.   BTW, soft bullets should work, but bump WAY up in GC install. No help. Joe, Thanks for the details.  If the nose of the NOE 80 (or a 311299) won't go up into the bore and either touch or come very close to touching the lands you no longer have a bore riding nose bullet but a blob of lead shaped like a bullet whose size and shape make no sense for that rifle.  I am surprised it shoots close to 2".  

I doubt that it's that easy, but it sounds to me like you have a batch of undersized gas checks if they won't snap on with finger pressure on bullets from several different molds.  I think you know that the gas check problem is at the seat of your trouble. if you can put on gas checks with finger pressure (without expanding the checks first) the Lee die should seat them fine.  This problem isn't new.  At one time Hornady was making gas checks that would only fit on about half of my collection of 22 molds -- better for the last ten years.  What is the diameter of the GC shank on your bullets? Maybe it is out of spec.  Does anybody have any 22 gas checks on the large size to send Joe a few.  Are gators or ?? likely to run larger? Will aluminum ones go on easier? I don't know what's on the market.  Do some run large?  I will look at my assortment and send the biggest.

To get more information.  Forget the gas check and size a couple of bullets in the .226” Lee push through. (Do a few in a .225” Lee as well if you have one to cover the bases.) Will they fit with the nose in the bore and forward motion stopped when the front band hits the taper?  If so, when pushed back out.  Are there land marks on the nose?  How many and how long?  If the nose won't go all the way into the bore try a softer bullet (ww or softer) and repeat.  If the nose of the softer bullet won't go fully into the bore  then the nose is simply too big for your bore.  One has to change.

When the bullet goes in and fits like it is supposed to the NOE 80 will shoot.  There is no black magic keeping a 22 from shooting cast -- just reasons.  Don't give up.

John