30-06 load

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  • Last Post 09 November 2009
ubetcha posted this 03 June 2007

I just joined CBA and I have some questions

 In the book I just recieved when joining I had read that in the section under cookbook loads for 30-06,when using IMR 4227,the low range of powder charge is only14 grs.I weighed that amount on my scale and it didn't look like alot of powder.

The author also stated that IMR4227 was not position sensitive.In the loading area he did not mention if he recomend a filler in keep the powder near the primer.Will this powder and weight charge work ok with out a filler?

I plan on starting a load with my 30-06 using this powder(as a starting point) with a lyman 311041 bullet sized .310 and using lyman super moly lube.I also have a lyman 311284 210 gr and a rcbs 308-165gr silhouette.Are any of these good for a start in beginning bench rest shooting.I don't think I will go to full blown bench rest,but just stick to production type class style

Are there other powders that anyone would recommend for these bullets and bore.I would like to stay close to 1600fps or less if possible

Thanks for any help or info

ubetcha

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corerf posted this 09 November 2009

Win model 770 (scoped), the rusty one from previous posts with the really bad bore that I had lapped)33 grain H4895, Win LRP, FL sized (HAD TO, other folks brass), Lyman 220 gr, GC and weighed within 1 gr window, machine charged, White label lube carnuba red at 100 yds. Today with a 7mph variable breeze, put three in a very honest 3/4 inch, a flyer (low velocity, not out of the group) added for 1.25 inch. Working from 33 thru 36 gr. At 34, I got another sub 1 inch honest group. At 35 gr, 6 inch group. At 36 opened to 6 inch as well. Very obvious where it let go and crapped out.

I shall revisit these loads with a little more accurate powder charging, case trim, neck size and half grain increment charge from 32 to 34 gr, see if there is a sweet spot hidding just below 33 or in between.

My shoulder hurts, no recoil pad on a light gun. I shot 60 rounds, not used to that.

Tried Al 2400 from 19-21 gr. No good. Put 5x in 3 inch/19gr. (barrel foulers on cold, ed's red wiped bore) , 5x in 1.5 inch at 20 gr, 5x in 3 inch at 21 gr. The 20 gr seems doable and maybe I should execute a DO OVER with 10-15 foulers prior to testing. That group may have still been “priming” the barrel from the previous eds red patch. Really not fair to the load. BTW: POI was about the same for both the H4895@33gr and the 2400@20gr. I mean very close! And the 2400 loads hurt more and were sharper blows to my shoulder. I like better the slow push than the hard pop.

Wasn't running the chrono today. I had only one tripod, used it for the spot scope. Estimated from Lee CB data, 1900 fps. I think careful loading will shrink the groups a bit more, if I can reproduce the same performance and it wasn't two groups that were flukes (not likely).

Needless to say, very enthused about the H4895 loads.

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shjoe posted this 09 November 2009

thanks Ed for the reply. i am currently trying gas-checked 180gr LRN cb (.310)and prob will make up a small batch of 26-28-30gr bullets for experimentation. best, john

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Ed Harris posted this 09 November 2009

I have used to to 30 grs. of RL-7 with 200-gr. GC bullet in the '06 with fine results if alloy is suitable. I use 21 grs. as a start load in most .30 cals. .30-30 and uo.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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shjoe posted this 08 November 2009

lately i have begun testing 180gr LRN cb with 25gr alliant RL-7. no excess pressure signs, light recoil and report. anyone have any experience with this combo? i am using an old sporterized eddystone with a decent bore. i am thinking that i may want to increase the charge rate a couple grs at a time to about 28-30grs. to speed it up a bit. i need lots of hold over at 100yds with the 25gr loading and i can hear the bullet impact down range as a separate sound from the firing discharge, (time delay). i dont have a cronograph, but would prob want something near 1800fps, or just under, to limit any chance of leading up the bore. this rifle shoots “the load” (16grs 2400 with a 150gr cb with reasonable accuracy for informal shooting). i think that the RL-7 with 180gr would make for a more effective 200yd hunting combination. any help/advice would be appreciated. thanks, john

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CB posted this 27 February 2009

I think with my Unique load I was shooting 9gr with a 180gr cb at just over 1,200fps. I've shot a 125gr back in the mid 80s but can't find my data on that load anymore. With 8.5gr with a 130gr i'd guess you'll probably be closer to 1,400fps.

I've tried the little 80gr Ideal 311252 once with mixed results. Sometimes it is harder to get a squib load to work good. At 4gr of Bullseye with the little Lee you'll probably still be up over 1,200fps. You start loading less you'll have to watch for irregular ignition that may leave the cb to stick in the bore.

You get the 130gr Unique load to shoot and that can't have much recoil that your daughter ought to enjoy shooting. You could try 7gr for the 130gr cb..........Dan

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Pbbbfischer posted this 27 February 2009

Dan, Do you know what I should expect in velocity with either the load of 8.5 gr. Unique w/130gr.CB or the Squib with Bullseye. Just so I know I am in the ballpark. Pbbb

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cityboy posted this 27 February 2009

Ed Harris wrote: Above transonic velocities you get less velocity gain and steeper pressure rise with small increases in charge weight.  If you can chronograph test firings of your charge establishment, its better to calculate specific energy in ft.-lbs. per grain for a given charge weight, then to plot the slope of the charge/velocity curve to estimate where higher end charges will peak.  

EdCan you expand on the above method of plotting the data? I am a bit confused.Have you used the computer code QuickLoad? I am using it some and find it useful. Like any prediction scheme, it can not be taken as gospel truth. I do a lot of my shooting over a Ohler chronograph and calculated velocity agrees pretty well with predicted. One of these days I should go through my range data and compare it to the predictions. Needless to say, agreement in velocity does not mean the calculated pressure is accurate.Jim

 

   

 

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CB posted this 27 February 2009

Pbbb. The Unique loads will work within a range of 7-10gr for a plain base cb whether you are using Hercules or new Alliant brands.  It is a reduced load so it has a fairly large pressure curve at those loads.

For a squib type load a fast pistol powder will work, I think something like 700X, Bullseye, W231, at 4-5grs for the little Lee cb.  I find little charges of Unique to burn dirty, though it does anyway..............Dan

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Pbbbfischer posted this 27 February 2009

Mark Wakefield wrote:      Hi;

                            I have shot thousands and thousands of 9.2 grains of Unique with Lyman 311410 130 gr. plain based pointed bullet and W W bench rest primers in my 30 06 chambering in a mil sighted 1940's made O3 A3 made by Remington. I think was using a Lyman 311410 130 gr. plain-based pointed bullet. I think this bullet was at first for use in 30 carbines.

 

Hey all,

 I have been searching for this information as not wanting to ask a question that had been answered many times and this is close.

I am looking for a load for a 30-06 and my first question is: Is this load still valid since it is 25yrs. old and Unique is a little different today? What would be the “todays load"? Does anyone know what the expected velocity of this load would be?

I don't have that mould but I would consider buying it. I do have a Lee 311-93 is there something I could do with that as a light recoil load for my daughter? What load would you recomend? I guess this would be a squib type load.  Thanks for the help, Pbbb

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Mark Wakefield posted this 25 February 2008

     Hi;

                            I have shot thousands and thousands of 9.2 grains of Unique with Lyman 311410 130 gr. plain based pointed bullet and W W bench rest primers in my 30 06 chambering in a mil sighted 1940's made O3 A3 made by Remington. I think was using a Lyman 311410 130 gr. plain-based pointed bullet. I think this bullet was at first for use in 30 carbines.

                           I vaguely remember clicking up the rear sight to 200 or 300 yards to flatten out the point of impact. My group in a 100 yards shooting on sandbags would be 1 inch to 1-½ inches.

                            This was 25 years ago but I remember standing up and whacking the 200 yard plate of steel with all five. String after string leaving brass scattered all around me, and a big grin on my face. The plate was 18 inches wide by 24 long.

                         This was 25 years ago but I remember. When the wind hit coming across full right left to right I would have put in maybe 2 or 3 clicks just to shoot in to the wind flow. Note on a slower bullet I would use a heavy amount of clicks just to get the slower moving bullet to move over and slide thru the on coming wind sooooooo nicely.

Mark M W

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AMMOe posted this 19 February 2008

I took my 1950 FN commercial 30-06 out last Saturday with some 311-284's over 18.5 grains of AA 5744. The bullets needed to be tapered in an Egan die to fit and I seated them to snug into the rifling. It was a very pleasing experience! 1.2 MOA was pretty standard stuff and I am not the best bench shooter in the county.

What was more fun was loading 40 rounds for a long time friend who was too strapped this week to buy ammo for his 03-A3. I had him work on the copper fouling over the  few days previous to our shoot and electrically removed the remainder when he arrived Saturday morning. We loaded the same load except that his throat  required no tapering. He was getting 2 to 3 MOA and that was the best he'd ever done with that rifle. Needless to say he was asking a LOT of questions about casting on the way home... ~Andy

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sundog posted this 16 February 2008

Dan, some of the very best groups and scores I've shot from a rack grade 03A3 and several different flavors of cast have been exactly the same combination -- cold wx and 4227 (no wad).  IIRC, the one bullet that was outstanding at this combination was 311291.  Not unusual to have a sub 2.5 inch 10-round group with only 7 or 8 holes (at a hunert yards).

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AMMOe posted this 16 February 2008

I have found the 5744 loads pretty consistent over yhe years. I think I started using it the first year the stuff was available and it has been a good “go to” powder for me. I have used it in military rifles down to -5F with good results. For plinking loads the Lee Dipper 1.3 will deliver right at 18 grains if you don't level it off.

Your 4227 load is impressive. I have not used Dacron / Kapok fillers for a couple of decades now but I note that some guys still use them with great success. I remember that one CBA competitor once wrote to me (pre-email days) saying that he “wrung” the chamber of his Savage Production Class rifle using 19 grains of 5744. The only diff was that he used a filler and I didn't. It's been enough to steer me away from them whenever I get tempted. It has been fairly easy for me as my CB shooting has been more involved with high speed over the years. I tend to load fuller density loadings for most of my CB fun and fillers aren't required. ~Andy

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CB posted this 16 February 2008

Andy, ya Scott Merchant got a line full of military shooters organized to shoot CBs for registered matches. He had to cast for most of them to get them started and get them loading Scott's favorite powder AA5744. Those guys at Hawkeye Range use anywhere betweemn 18-20gr of 5744 and most do really well in scores.

I tested my load of 21.5gr of IMR4227 with Dacron in my Sprg when it was 7 degrees outside, just the other day. With a Lyman 311679 is clocks at 1,620fps with an Extreme Spread of 7-8 fps! It burns clean and efficient at cold temps. My 308 Savage load with N135 went sour at 7 degrees shooting 140-150 ES!:X  So there is one good advantage to fast powders (or easily ignited) powders in low pressure cb loads in the winter time.....................Dan

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AMMOe posted this 16 February 2008

You guys have me fired up to shoot 30-06 again. I have an FN Model 1950 Sporter that I'd like to run some 311-284's through but they will need to be tapered before I can fit them into the chamber. While planning this load for tomorrow I was reminded of my other favorite 30-06 target load: 20 grains of AA5744. Very pleasant to shoot and very accurate.~Andy

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CB posted this 13 February 2008

Ed Harris wrote: Above transonic velocities you get less velocity gain and steeper pressure rise with small increases in charge weight.  If you can chronograph test firings of your charge establishment, its better to calculate specific energy in ft.-lbs. per grain for a given charge weight, then to plot the slope of the charge/velocity curve to estimate where higher end charges will peak. 

Current Alliant Unique is slightly faster than older Hercules product,  and I would be careful above about 13-14 grains in the '06.  I have found that Unique, like Bullseye, has a narrow range of usefulness and once you get to the point where the load requires a GC it's time to stop right there, usually about 1450 fps.   Ya, I've noticed that with a couple other powders. Once you hit the top of the fast powder's capability, the grain increase/velocity-gain just flattens out. My NT07 load of 25gr of SR4759 with the 311284 at 214gr of Lino at 1,960fps in the 308Win was that way. It really wasn't a good choice of powder with that heavy bullet. The accuracy sweet-spot was really narrow, but I wanted to make the combination work. That was the next sweet-spot above the 18gr - 4759 load. :kilroy:  Thanks Ed...................Dan

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AMMOe posted this 13 February 2008

I'll take your word on all that Ed.

This is an old-time Springfield load.  I have never chronographed it but I'm guessing it is at or under 1500 ft/sec. It has always been a pleasurable paper-punching load and I haven't tried to second guess it's success in the various 30-06s I've used it in. It just worked. ~Andy

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Ed Harris posted this 13 February 2008

Dan Willems wrote: I've never loaded Unique in rifle loads, but heard it works good.   Is that with the new Alliant Unique?    Do you know what velocity that load is?   With Unique using typical 150-180 grain soft cast bullets, starting from the minimum threshold charge for reliable bore-exit in the '06 velocity approximates 120 times the charge weight in grains until the velocity becomes transonic. 

Above transonic velocities you get less velocity gain and steeper pressure rise with small increases in charge weight.  If you can chronograph test firings of your charge establishment, its better to calculate specific energy in ft.-lbs. per grain for a given charge weight, then to plot the slope of the charge/velocity curve to estimate where higher end charges will peak. 

Current Alliant Unique is slightly faster than older Hercules product,  and I would be careful above about 13-14 grains in the '06.  I have found that Unique, like Bullseye, has a narrow range of usefulness and once you get to the point where the load requires a GC it's time to stop right there, usually about 1450 fps. 

 

 

   

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 13 February 2008

Thanks Andy.

I've never loaded Unique in rifle loads, but heard it works good.   Is that with the new Alliant Unique?    Do you know what velocity that load is?    I'll have to try 2400 and Unique some day to understand how it compares to my favorites in the 06, then to try in some other calibers I think it'll be good for....................Dan

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AMMOe posted this 13 February 2008

My favorite 30-06 load is a 311-284 nudged into the lands with 15 grains of Unique behind it. I have never shot BR with this load but it will hold MOA from my Springfield. If this load is position sensitive I've never noticed. ~Andy

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