30-06 load

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  • Last Post 09 November 2009
ubetcha posted this 03 June 2007

I just joined CBA and I have some questions

 In the book I just recieved when joining I had read that in the section under cookbook loads for 30-06,when using IMR 4227,the low range of powder charge is only14 grs.I weighed that amount on my scale and it didn't look like alot of powder.

The author also stated that IMR4227 was not position sensitive.In the loading area he did not mention if he recomend a filler in keep the powder near the primer.Will this powder and weight charge work ok with out a filler?

I plan on starting a load with my 30-06 using this powder(as a starting point) with a lyman 311041 bullet sized .310 and using lyman super moly lube.I also have a lyman 311284 210 gr and a rcbs 308-165gr silhouette.Are any of these good for a start in beginning bench rest shooting.I don't think I will go to full blown bench rest,but just stick to production type class style

Are there other powders that anyone would recommend for these bullets and bore.I would like to stay close to 1600fps or less if possible

Thanks for any help or info

ubetcha

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sundog posted this 04 June 2007

Ya, Ubetcha!

4227 is my 'goto' powder for cast in many loadings. One of my favorite loads is 21.0/4227 with just about any 180-200 grainer in 30-06. With the SAECO #301 in an 'as issued' CMP 03A3 it is a easy sub 3 inch group at 100 yards - usually under 2.5 and sometimes under 2. This rifle and load consistently produces 98s on the SR-21, same distance. No filler. I also shoot this load in a RI 03 with target peeps for high power. Last match I shot a really bad prone SF (had alot of trouble seeing) and still finished with a 703/800. It works.

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CB posted this 04 June 2007

I find the match tech sheets to have a little more accurate load data than what reloading books have to offer for cb's. You can find the last 2 years of match results on the CBA website, for 30-06 look mostly under military match results.

I found a good load last winter in my 30-40 Krag with 21.5gr of H4227 at a velocity of 1,760fps with a 200gr cb. Mitch Migliaccio uses 4227 most of the time in his 308 with 20gr load at 1,700fps. If you want to stay down around 1,600fps, probably 18gr will work for you. I've had real good luck with 18gr to 18.5 gr of SR4759 in the 30-06.

I've found out the hard way during matches that all powders can be position sensitive, according to what cartridge and the amount of air-space/ to powder-space ratio there is for that cartridge and load. When developing a load, I'd tip muzzle up till I found a decent accuracy load. Then shoot 4 or 5 shots with the powder position up and then another 4 or 5 rounds with powder position down. Watch the shots and see if it groups two separate groups, one will be high an another low. I've found as much as 4” difference between groups at 100yds doing this in developing loads with some powders. Good luck...............Dan

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PETE posted this 04 June 2007

 ubetcha,

  I would argue the position sensitivity of 4227. Testing with my chronograph I've found that IMR 4227 is position sensitive. There will be about 60 fps difference if you orient the powder to the front or back of the case. From what little testing I've done I haven't found it makes much difference how you orient the powder as long as you do it the same for each shot.

  Personally I'd stay away from using fillers.

   For the CBA Military Postals I use 15.0 grs. of IMR 4227 and the Lyman 311291, which gives about 1350 fps which is all you need at the 100 yds. used for those matches. I also make sure I orient the powder to the rear by tipping the muzzle up. For 200 yd. shooting I'd go with your 210 gr. bullet. The bullet listed above weighs 177 grs.  RTL  and doesn't hold up well at 200 at that MV.

  Looking up my records for 200 yds. I find that I used a Lyman 311334 (202 grs. RTL). RL-7 was the powder used but since that was in a .308 I won't mention the load but the MV was 1750 fps.

  The best advice I could give you is to look up in the FS and see what 's being used in the way of powders by the winners, and use the fastest MV you can get consistent with the best accuracy in your gun.

PETE

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ubetcha posted this 04 June 2007

Thanks guys for the advice there's alot for things I need to relearn about bullet casting and shooting.Most of shooting has been cast,size,lube and shoot without understanding the complete process on doing it properly.I think this will also help my IHMSA scores too thanks again ubetcha

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Ed Harris posted this 06 June 2007

Position sensitivity of 4227 is primer dependent.

I use Winchester large rifle primers which have metallic aluminum added as fuel, because these scatter hot incandescent particles through the charge to aid ignition.

You “could” also experiment (cautiously) with enlarging flash hole diameter. Try a number 39 drill 0.099” vs. normal max flash hole 0.082.” Use these only for mild loads under 30,000 cup. Mark the cases with a file or hacksaw cut across the head and keep them separate.

I have also tried with fairly good results, using a tiny black powder booster of 3F blackpowder, no more than 2 grains, evenly mixed with the smokeless powder charge. Yes, you have to clean afterwards.

But after all the experimenting I just stopped using anything but Winchester primers and I attempt to handle the rifle uniformly so that varied powder positioning is less of an issue. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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billwnr posted this 09 June 2007

How come no one is speaking up for 16 grains of 2400? It works good for me.

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Ed Harris posted this 12 June 2007

It works fine, but may be position sensitive unless you use Wincjhester primers.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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billwnr posted this 12 June 2007

Ed Harris wrote: It works fine, but is position sensitive.

Ed,   Are you still speaking of 4227  being position sensitive or was this meant for 2400? 

If you did mean 2400 is position sensitive, I'm surprised as I've been shooting it for a year now and haven't noticed.    I have some questions if you were talking about 2400.

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cityboy posted this 09 February 2008

I find that the issue of a load or powder being position sensitive can depend a lot on how the rounds are handled when  a round is chambered.  I store my ammo in MTM ammo boxes with the bullet up. When a round is chambered, it is handled in a manner to keep the powder at the primer end of the case; and the bolt is closed gently to keep the powder in place. I do most of my shooting over an Oehler chronograph and I can see the effects of how the rounds are handled.

In the 30-06, Unique and 2400 are probably the least position sensitive powders I have used. I also get uniform velocity data with 20.0 grains of SR 4759 wwhen the round is handled right.

Cityboy

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Ed Harris posted this 12 February 2008

Position sensitivity of #2400 I have found to be primer dependent also.

Since I standardized on Winchester primers across the board I haven't had this problem anymore.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 12 February 2008

SR4759 18.0gr, 175 gr bullet works fairly well.. ABout 1700 fps.

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CB posted this 12 February 2008

Yup Jeff, 18gr of SR4759 with a 175-200gr cb in a 30-06 or 30-40 Krag is a PET load! 18grs just shoots! :thumbsup: 

Just like Ed's favorite of 13gr a Red Dot. Just like Bill's favorite 16grs of Alliant2400. These are PET loads. :wav3:.............................Dan

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AMMOe posted this 13 February 2008

My favorite 30-06 load is a 311-284 nudged into the lands with 15 grains of Unique behind it. I have never shot BR with this load but it will hold MOA from my Springfield. If this load is position sensitive I've never noticed. ~Andy

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CB posted this 13 February 2008

Thanks Andy.

I've never loaded Unique in rifle loads, but heard it works good.   Is that with the new Alliant Unique?    Do you know what velocity that load is?    I'll have to try 2400 and Unique some day to understand how it compares to my favorites in the 06, then to try in some other calibers I think it'll be good for....................Dan

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Ed Harris posted this 13 February 2008

Dan Willems wrote: I've never loaded Unique in rifle loads, but heard it works good.   Is that with the new Alliant Unique?    Do you know what velocity that load is?   With Unique using typical 150-180 grain soft cast bullets, starting from the minimum threshold charge for reliable bore-exit in the '06 velocity approximates 120 times the charge weight in grains until the velocity becomes transonic. 

Above transonic velocities you get less velocity gain and steeper pressure rise with small increases in charge weight.  If you can chronograph test firings of your charge establishment, its better to calculate specific energy in ft.-lbs. per grain for a given charge weight, then to plot the slope of the charge/velocity curve to estimate where higher end charges will peak. 

Current Alliant Unique is slightly faster than older Hercules product,  and I would be careful above about 13-14 grains in the '06.  I have found that Unique, like Bullseye, has a narrow range of usefulness and once you get to the point where the load requires a GC it's time to stop right there, usually about 1450 fps. 

 

 

   

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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AMMOe posted this 13 February 2008

I'll take your word on all that Ed.

This is an old-time Springfield load.  I have never chronographed it but I'm guessing it is at or under 1500 ft/sec. It has always been a pleasurable paper-punching load and I haven't tried to second guess it's success in the various 30-06s I've used it in. It just worked. ~Andy

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CB posted this 13 February 2008

Ed Harris wrote: Above transonic velocities you get less velocity gain and steeper pressure rise with small increases in charge weight.  If you can chronograph test firings of your charge establishment, its better to calculate specific energy in ft.-lbs. per grain for a given charge weight, then to plot the slope of the charge/velocity curve to estimate where higher end charges will peak. 

Current Alliant Unique is slightly faster than older Hercules product,  and I would be careful above about 13-14 grains in the '06.  I have found that Unique, like Bullseye, has a narrow range of usefulness and once you get to the point where the load requires a GC it's time to stop right there, usually about 1450 fps.   Ya, I've noticed that with a couple other powders. Once you hit the top of the fast powder's capability, the grain increase/velocity-gain just flattens out. My NT07 load of 25gr of SR4759 with the 311284 at 214gr of Lino at 1,960fps in the 308Win was that way. It really wasn't a good choice of powder with that heavy bullet. The accuracy sweet-spot was really narrow, but I wanted to make the combination work. That was the next sweet-spot above the 18gr - 4759 load. :kilroy:  Thanks Ed...................Dan

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AMMOe posted this 16 February 2008

You guys have me fired up to shoot 30-06 again. I have an FN Model 1950 Sporter that I'd like to run some 311-284's through but they will need to be tapered before I can fit them into the chamber. While planning this load for tomorrow I was reminded of my other favorite 30-06 target load: 20 grains of AA5744. Very pleasant to shoot and very accurate.~Andy

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CB posted this 16 February 2008

Andy, ya Scott Merchant got a line full of military shooters organized to shoot CBs for registered matches. He had to cast for most of them to get them started and get them loading Scott's favorite powder AA5744. Those guys at Hawkeye Range use anywhere betweemn 18-20gr of 5744 and most do really well in scores.

I tested my load of 21.5gr of IMR4227 with Dacron in my Sprg when it was 7 degrees outside, just the other day. With a Lyman 311679 is clocks at 1,620fps with an Extreme Spread of 7-8 fps! It burns clean and efficient at cold temps. My 308 Savage load with N135 went sour at 7 degrees shooting 140-150 ES!:X  So there is one good advantage to fast powders (or easily ignited) powders in low pressure cb loads in the winter time.....................Dan

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AMMOe posted this 16 February 2008

I have found the 5744 loads pretty consistent over yhe years. I think I started using it the first year the stuff was available and it has been a good “go to” powder for me. I have used it in military rifles down to -5F with good results. For plinking loads the Lee Dipper 1.3 will deliver right at 18 grains if you don't level it off.

Your 4227 load is impressive. I have not used Dacron / Kapok fillers for a couple of decades now but I note that some guys still use them with great success. I remember that one CBA competitor once wrote to me (pre-email days) saying that he “wrung” the chamber of his Savage Production Class rifle using 19 grains of 5744. The only diff was that he used a filler and I didn't. It's been enough to steer me away from them whenever I get tempted. It has been fairly easy for me as my CB shooting has been more involved with high speed over the years. I tend to load fuller density loadings for most of my CB fun and fillers aren't required. ~Andy

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