Old School 38 Special Reloading

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  • Last Post 28 November 2014
Chargar posted this 15 July 2014

Like others, I think the 38 Special round is just the “bee's knees” to use a very dated expression fitting for a round this old. I have quite a few Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers chambered for this rounds. Some are the target sighted sixguns of old and others are “service revolvers", and I handload for them all. The 150 +- grain full wadcutter is best in it's  terminal performance on paper or flesh, blood and nerves. However I have never found any bullet that would produce smaller groups for me than the old 155-160 grain round nose. I have several old molds for this bullet but the old (1907) Lyman/Ideal 358311 is still my favorite. Sent on it's way with 3.5/Bulleye or 5.5/AA5 it will shoot to the fixed sights of service revolvers and make drink cans bounce with the best of them. Dirt clods and small sticks are in mortal danger. I have just finished up a batch with this bullet and 5.2/AA5. I reduced the charge a smidge out of respect for my 100 year old revolvers and the thicker Lake City brass. I trimmed the cases for uniform length and square mouths on my 60 year old Wilson trimmer, sized in an old Lyman shell resizer hand die, primed, expanded, seated the bullets and crimped in my old Ideal No. 3 tool. Now for the fun of emptying the cases and doing it all over again.

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RicinYakima posted this 15 July 2014

Nice #3 Ideal tool, also. Ric

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Tom Acheson posted this 15 July 2014

Charles,

Have you ever played with a S&W Model 52 semi-auto that will only shoot flush seated full wadcutters? If so what load worked well?

Thanks!

Tom

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Chargar posted this 15 July 2014

I have never played with a Smith 52 as they are too costly and don't have the loading flexibility I like. Many years ago, I did have a 1911 pistol converted from 38 Super to 38 Special by Jim Peters an El Paso gunsmith. I understand he is the guy who first figured out how to do this. He made all of Charles Askins race guns. He is now dead, Peters I mean and of course Askins is also dead, despite rumors to the contrary. Colt for a time made their Gold Cup in 38 Special. All of these handguns were purpose built for the Bulleye competition crowd. The load they used was the now famous 2.7/Bulleye over the flush seated wadcutter. The button nose was suppose to add a little guidance as the round went into the chamber. If somebody gave me a Smith 52, I would take it with gratitude and use the above load. But I would not buy one for anything like fair market price. If I got one on the cheap, I would sell it for the profit. I can't sell a gift.

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Chargar posted this 15 July 2014

RicinYakima wrote: Nice #3 Ideal tool, also. Ric These days people wee-wee all over themselves looking for and paying high prices for steel 310 tool handles while  the Ideal No. 3s sell for half the money. Go figure! The No. 3 will take the 310 dies.

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Tom Acheson posted this 15 July 2014

Charles,

The Model 52 and Model 58 (4” .41 Mag) were on my “have to have” list for over 20-years but cost and availability always got in the way. Within the last 3-years I finally acquired both. Just shot the 58 yesterday. The 52 goes with me on the next range trip. Scarily accurate gun!

Tom

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Vassal posted this 15 July 2014

pics,,,

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thors posted this 30 August 2014

Man, your post caught the eye of this 50 year plus reloader who also uses the old stuff. I have been doing foster care for teen boys for the last 34 years and my current partner is 16 and is one of the first real, genuine human kids his age that I have been proud to meet in a long time. His education in shooting is going to begin today by helping me to reload some ammo for my Smith pre-Model 10, C-74708, in .38 Special. It is a mild mannered handgun still in service dress and in perfect condition. I like #358156 and will come up with something that will start him out with plinking at close range so that he is able to get the feel of things. I have some 150 grain semi-wadcutters that will also get considered. I prefer the Belding and Mull Visible Powder Measure as my only powder dropper. Also have most of their presses and probably will still use my old RCBS Rockchucker. There is nothing better than starting out a young man with lead slugs and a nice handgun! I crave these things more in my later years now than ever before. Thors in NW rainy Wisconsin

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PETE posted this 30 August 2014

Tom, 

Been working up loads for my S&W Mod. 52 since I got it a month ago. Using a H&G #50. I've found 2.7 or 2.8 grs. of Bullseye is working the best. Will be trying a cleaner powder as the BE really fouls the chamber ahead of the case. Cases today don't even meet trim to lengths of the older cases or the chamber of the 52's. 

Also been trying different OAL's to see if I can reduce the fouling. In my gun at least (-2) I can seat the bullets out a little more than flush and still work freely in the slide. That's a must!

 Pete 

Will agree that the 52 is very accurate and the trigger pull at 2 pds.  is as good as I've shot, including custom ones.

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Dale53 posted this 03 September 2014

Pete; Gil Hebard ran extensive machine rest tests with several production Model 52 Smith's. His detailed article is in his book, “The Pistol Shooter's Treasury” still available (used) from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Pistol-Shooters-Treasury-Second-Edition/dp/B003XSZW2C/ref=sr11?ie=UTF8&qid=1409702685&sr=8-1&keywords=Gil+Hebard

I believe that the 1963 Guns Digest had a review of his, too (I haven't read it recently and don't know how detailed it is).

I had a 52 Smith many years ago and when I stopped shooting Bullseye I sold it to a very good friend. Mine would do 2” at fifty yards with reloads off a Ransom Rest.

Dale53

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PETE posted this 03 September 2014

Dale,

Have a copy of that article (a TESTFIRE report) by Gil Hebard from the 1963 annual edition of Gun Digest. and one in the same issue (I think) by Kent Bellah on “Hand loading the Smith & Wesson Model 52".  

Pete

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Dale53 posted this 20 November 2014

My favorite revolvers, of late, are a pair of 625's in .45 ACP.

However, due to the primer shortage, I thought it a good idea to start shooting some .38 Specials instead (double my shooting fun:D).

I have a number of .38's (my daily carry is a 642) including my Model 14 with Bomar rib from my PPC days along with a number of .357 Smiths. I recently (last year) bought a Smith Model 520 (composite 4” barrel, titanium cylinder, blued steel frame, and adjustable sights chambered in .357). It is drilled and tapped for an optical sight. I have lost most of the vision in my right eye, so put Red Dots on a number of my range guns and put a Simmons Red Dot on this revolver.

I have an original four cavity H&G #50bb mould (bought on this Forum) that casts a beautiful bullet just over .358” in my alloy. I size to .358” and lube on my Star using Lars White Label Carnauba Red. This revolver will do under 1” at 25 yards (from a rest). I use Ed Harris' recommendations for wadcutter loads. My current load is 3.2 grs of Bullseye in .38 Special cases. Here is my revolver:

http://tvwbb.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_postphoto>http://tvwbb.com/faq.php?faq=vb3boardfaq#faqpostphoto

Here it is with the Red Dot sight:

http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0371.jpg.html>http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/JavelinaTarget.jpg.html>http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/HG50BB-1402_900x1200.jpg.html>

The last range session I broke out my ol' and much used field gun in .38 Special - the 60-4:

http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0242.jpg.html>

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Vassal posted this 20 November 2014

Simply gorgeous...

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tturner53 posted this 20 November 2014

I have to admit, when Dale speaks, I listen. Thanks for sharing your nice collection and experience. My own experience with the .38 is I hit a wall, 2” at 25 yds. from a bench/sandbags is the best I've done and that seldom. My K38 probably can do better but my limitations kick in. Surprisingly my .357 M60 can almost match the larger K frames I have, depending on my shaking fuzzy focusing issues of the day. Loading .38s old school style is relaxing and a bit like a vacation. I've used my old tong tools, a Lee hammer kit, and a Junior press that uses 310 dies. If you can't do what you gotta do with a .38 get a rifle.

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Tom Acheson posted this 20 November 2014

If you are familiar with the Model 58, (.41 Mag) it has a 4” bull barrel, fixed sights and built on the N-frame. Does or did S&W make a revolver similar to the 58 but chambered in .38 (not .38/.357, just .38)?

Thanks S&W researchers!

Tom

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Ed Harris posted this 24 November 2014

I once had a 3-1/2” fixed sight, round butt N-frame, .38/.44 Heavy Duty, which had been a pre-WW2 cop gun.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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R. Dupraz posted this 24 November 2014

After having pretty much grown up with S&W revolvers, beginning in the mid sixties, I have gotten away from them when the front sights turned fuzzy. And haven't kept up with the various new models since. Don't like the new ones anyway      But, just a couple of days ago, a friend showed me his stainless round butt five shot lug barreled 4” 44 special. L frame I think.  After having handled that and seen the  model 60-4 .38 Special shown in this thread, I am definitely  rethinking my position, fuzzy sights or not.

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Tom Acheson posted this 24 November 2014

The S&W Classics site shows their Model 10, blue, 4” at $739...a bit pricey and that goofy looking cly. release but....

Tom

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Chargar posted this 24 November 2014

A good pair of glasses of the right prescription make fuzzy sights sharp again. Better living and shooting through technology. Did somebody mention the 38/44 Heavy Duty? 

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R. Dupraz posted this 24 November 2014

They aren't Smith's any more

Old dogs etc,etc..........

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R. Dupraz posted this 24 November 2014

"A good pair of glasses of the right prescription make fuzzy sights sharp again"   Been there already.   Oh, still have a couple yet. It's still just kinda fun to hear the old beasts go “bang” once in a while. One thing though is that the beer cans last longer than they used to.

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