accuracy - 22 Hornet, 221, 223 - PB or GC?

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  • Last Post 07 March 2014
TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 02 March 2014

I'm thinking of taking a 100 yd gun for hunting prairie dogs again this year; but using only cast bullets with it.  My candidates are a Karl Walther in .22 Hornet, a heavy bbl XP-100 (rifle) in .221 and a bolt action in .223. For minute-of-prairie-dog accuracy, would you choose a bullet with or without a gas check? Which one?  

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 02 March 2014

one vote for * with gc * even tho i hate them on principle. ( g )

ken

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Vassal posted this 02 March 2014

HORNET,,,, Why go bigger than your stated needs,,,,,,,,especially when you mention at least some desire to shoot without a check?

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billwnr posted this 02 March 2014

You might let the twist rates of the different rifles help in the selection

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tturner53 posted this 02 March 2014

I would be thinking in terms of 'instant kills'. I never shot a prairie dog but have slewed many many ground squirrels out here. It is one thing to get a hit and another to drop them stone dead instantly. For my uses a .22 Magnum level of power is the minimum for lights out hits in the 100 yd. range. My Hornet and .223s will shoot plain bases accurately enough but may be marginal energy wise with anything besides a perfect shot. My 2 cents says spring for the gas checks, put on a little more heat, and avoid the wounding issue more better. Bang flop is the goal. EDIT; Producing the 'red mist' is even better. That takes velocity.

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.22-10-45 posted this 05 March 2014

  For my Shillen barreled Borchardt Hornet, I had Fred Leeth make up two identical nose-pour moulds..copies of the Ideal 22636..one gas-checked the other plain-base..there is absolutly zero difference in accuracy between them. However, running a dry patch thru after firing ythe p.b. there are always tiny lead specks on patch..nothing sticking in bore. The g.c. loads show zero lead on patch. I believe the check scrapes minute lead particles out & maintains bore condition..especially if weather is hot & shooting is fast. Sounds like a fun trip!

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CB posted this 05 March 2014

All things considered, I'd look closely at the .223. This is a personal preference of course, based on the premise that I can always load a caliber down, but if I find the need for more horsepower down the the road, it's going to cost me more than a simple load adjustment would. Since I would be loading over 1500 fps, I'd go with a gascheck mold. Another advantage to 223 is the availability of brass at reasonable prices. For old-time cool factor, the Hornet would be my favorite, and for practicality, I might select the Fireball, but the price of brass for is and the Hornet are definitely a factor to me.

Yup, I focused on the mechanics of the gun and calibers, and totally spaced off my concerns about using cast in this particular application.

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R. Dupraz posted this 05 March 2014

Personally, I would not use any cast bullet, gas GC or not, on prairie dogs. Unless it was a hollow point that I could push at least 2000 FPS or more. And then limit the range to not more than 100 yds tops. The exception here are the RF's but only with hollow points. And even at that, every shot is not perfect.  Those little buggers are not ground squirrels and are pretty hardy. And if not hit solidly will make it down the hole to die.      I  did my dangdest to thin the SD prairie dog population for maybe 10+ years and even with a battery of a .22K hornet, .222 R, 22-250 and a Rem. 40X 25-06 single shot, all with jacketed,  every shot was not perfect. And distances were not always guessed right. The little critters deserve as much respect as any other game animal.   Anyone who has hunted them knows what I'm talking about.   The little Sako Vixen 222 varminter's barrel was eventually worn out.   tturner53 has it right.    

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Vassal posted this 06 March 2014

I defer to experience and stand corrected.

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Brodie posted this 06 March 2014

I don't want to start a fight, but both PD's and ground squirrels are hard to kill. I have personally blown them into seperate parts and watched the front halves crawl down the hole. Last summer I shot one ground squirrel and while it was still dying another started to feed on it. If you want to be certain of killing one of either species you should limit yourself to only head or thoracic cavity shots. That is the only way you can guarantee a quick kill.
Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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SouthDakota4440 posted this 06 March 2014

Ditto what both Mr. Dupraz and Brodie stated.  I also use the .22 hornet, .221 Fireball, .233 Rem on PDs.  Bullets used are Hornady V-Max's at standard cartridge velocities.  It takes a square hit to anchor PDs...they are tough.  Also out here wind can be a big factor on PDs yardages...even 100 yds distances.   Marc

mm

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 March 2014

Yup.  Vmax's are GOOD.  Also the Sierra flavor. I've used both in the 221 and 223. My friends use the 17hmr for up to 100.  I'm lookin' for something of roughly equivalent accuracy (out to 100).  Have used the Stevens Favorite successfully at 75 (with LR HP). Which (cast) bullets, loads?  Lighter - 35gr?  Normal (45-50) or heavy 65 or so? Where's GOOD PD hunting in SD?  We've been doing well near Martin.  

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R. Dupraz posted this 06 March 2014

SD1:    Ah, yes, the SD wind. Exactly why the Rem 40x 25-06 showed up. The little Sako couldn't quite cope.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 March 2014

I've experienced a 6' hold-off at 200 yds with a .243.

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jhalcott posted this 06 March 2014

Pint drink bottles at various yardage are better FUN targets than live vermin. Trying to hit a bottle hung at longish range can be a LOT of fun(or frustration!)when the wind blows it around. OF course, you have to pick up your trash when you are done. I've SEEN people popping off at P-dogs with .38 specials and 45 auto's at several hundred yards. Laughing when they got CLOSE, but not sure IF they ever got a hit! RANT MODE OFF!!!

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R. Dupraz posted this 06 March 2014

"I've SEEN people popping off at P-dogs with .38 specials and 45 auto's at several hundred yards. Laughing when they got CLOSE, but not sure IF they ever got a hit”          Akin to flock shooting green head Mallards or Canadian Honkers.          There was an old, at the  time, crotchety gunsmith where I grew up that got me started with cast bullets. Spent more time than I should have at his little gun shop, casting and BSing. Old Hank was a prairie dog shooter long before I came along. Would tell how he, Carolyn and his pals would camp out for a week in a town and shoot. I saw some of his home movies of one of their hunts and there was literally a mound of empty cases piled on a tarp.        His prairie dog shooter was a .300HH. If memory serves, he loaded 125grn soft points. Never did see the rifle but it more than likely was either a Mod 70 Win. or a rebarreled 1903. Old Hank had a collection of both.

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SouthDakota4440 posted this 07 March 2014

TRK: PDs are most everywhere West River (i.e. West of the Missouri River).  Martin is a good area....all the way to Wyoming.  Many PDs on National Grasslands as well as private ranches.  Some of the ranchers “book” PD hunts.  My experience is that the majority of PDs are taken within 200-250 yds....but have seen some very long shots/hits out to 600 yds or a bit more.  This is where it gets tricky....have to really  "wind dope” those shots.  I too have taken PDs with .38 special and .45 Colt...at handgun ranges usually of no more than 20 yds or so.  Worked fine....but  the shots were under very good conditions.  The 5” profile of a PD over metallic sights gets small in a hurry.  Once used at re-barreled Ruger #1 in 25-20 Win with a 85 gr Remington softpoint loaded with RL-7.  Max range was kept to 100 yds.  Guestimate 1700-1800 fps.  It would definitely anchor PDs, but the hit was not “explosive"....just a solid “thud".  Obviously, caliber size compensated for lack of velocity...but the 25-20 was effective at shorter ranges.  Good luck on that trip you are thinking about. Mr. Dupraz:  Thanks for sharing the story.  Also like that 25-06 under windy conditions...I went with a .257 Roberts, 85 gr V-Max of course. Marc 

mm

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