Smokeless reloads for 40/65 in an original Winchester 1886?

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Detent178 posted this 4 weeks ago

Hi one and all, I have an original Winchester 1886 in 40/65, manufactured / received in the warehouse on March the 14th, 1894. The octagonal barrel has no markings to suggest nickel steel. The bore is good and the rifle was recently proofed at the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House, "nitro for black" which means using a smokeless load that would generate the same pressures as 65gr of black powder plus 25-30%. However, I do not know what powder they used, nor the load, and this information was not forthcoming.

I would like to recommission this rifle and shoot it every now and then. I do have an original Winchester bullet mould that is in excellent condition and casts a 259gr bullet head in lead alloy with a Brinell hardness number of 12-15.

I could use black powder, but would also be grateful for any advice anyone might have to offer as to smokeless loads for the original bullet. We have a very limited range of powder options here in the UK but most Vihtavuori powders are available. I use N130 for 45/70 with decent results.

Does anyone have any experience of shooting this calibre, using the 260gr cast bullet with smokeless, using VV N130?

Kind regards

Mike

40/65-reloads

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delmarskid posted this 4 weeks ago

I can’t give you any data but I may be able to give you some direction in finding some. You may be able to find pressure tested black powder loading data and match it to a smokeless load.

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fc60 posted this 4 weeks ago

Greetings,

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has several Smokeless loads with pressure for the 40-65.

Cheers,

Dave

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Detent178 posted this 3 weeks ago

Thank you both. 

I have a copy of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook # 4, but it stipulates that the loads are for "modern" rifles. I think that the route forward is indeed to find pressure tested black powder loading data, matched to smokeless load. I have emailed the Gun Barrel Proof House, where the rifle was proofed "nitro for black", which would suggest that the proof house do have that data, but am yet to receive a reply, and they may be reluctant to supply any information. I would like to shoot the rifle using the original Winchester 260 gr cast bullet (I have the factory supplied mould) and a smokeless load pressure equivalent to 65 gr of FFg. I have read that back in the day when Winchester started manufacturing smokeless cartridges, they were loaded so that they could be put through barrels originally designed for black powder, is this correct? If so, the data should be there somewhere.

Cheers

Mike

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Hornet posted this 2 weeks ago

Don't know how much this will help, but Ken Waters did some work with an 1886 for his Pet Loads. VV130 looks to about the same speed as IMR 3031 and HIS loads ( NOT TESTED BY ME) with jacketed 258-260 grain jacketed bullets ran from 32.0 Gr 3031 for 1385 fps to 36.0 Gr for 1560 fps with 36.0 listed as the most accurate. As always, start low and work up slow.  He also mentioned some issues with bullets at groove diameter (0.406 on his) increasing case neck diameter enough to cause chambering issues.

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