S&W 929 accuracy

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wimilkman posted this 19 January 2023

If anyone out there has a S&W 929 revolver in 9mm I am in need of some help with getting it to shoot more accurately . I bought a set of pin gages which has answered some questions on other revolvers ,but what I found out on the 929 is that the cylinder throats are .357 , I am currently using a 125gr. LSWC with a diameter of .356 and Winchester Auto Comp powder , Hodgdon Hi Skor 700X powder and W244 ( have not tried W244 yet) with a SP primer. I talked to to a person at S&W but really did not get any real answers. I have a S&W 627 PC in 38 Super and that thing is a tack driver but it is my understanding that Lothar/Walther made the barrels for that model and they are of the correct bore , from what I have found out the 929 barrels were made in house either at TC or S&W... I have not yet slugged my barrel but if any of you could offer me any advice on what you have found out, experienced and done to get better accuracy out of the 929 I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you, Fred

Fred H.

bullets

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Eutectic posted this 19 January 2023

Fred,

Have you tried jacketed bullets? If it will not shoot jacketed something may be wrong.

It is a revolver, and you want cast bullets to fit the throats, so .357 

There is no length restriction, try seating 357 bullets longer.   

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wimilkman posted this 20 January 2023

I have shot it with jacketed bullets accuracy was better with them I only had about 150 FMJ Remington's 115 grs. that I use for 38 super . I am going to try some 357 lead bullets, the ones I have are140 gr. 358" but I have a Lee .357 sizing die and Lee Alox so I will size them to .357 and see what transpires. I am also going to pick up a couple boxes of 147gr. 9mm bullets and give them a try also. I have quite a few S&W revolvers plus a few Ruger's , 2-BFR's , 1- Taurus Raging Bull, they are not finnicky about what I use in them but the 929 is.

Thank you for your Help!!!

Sincerely, Fred

Fred H.

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99 Strajght posted this 20 January 2023

I had a similar problem with my Sig 320 this summer. It would shoot jacketed 124 gr, well but not cast. I tried 3 different 124 gr. cast bullets, 6 different powders and even different cases with no luck. 12 inch groups at 25 yards at best. I had 3 loaded cast rounds left that I just pulled the bullets. when I measured the pulled bullets they measured .354. They went into the cases as .357 of an inch. The case was sizing the cast bullet down as they went into the case. I found an expander die from my 357 Mag. set and used it to expand the cases. That was the problem. Groups are now 2 inches at 25 yards.

Glenn

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delmarskid posted this 20 January 2023

I shoot .358’s out of my 9mm. I use a tumble lube and shoot 125’s as cast. The thing runs like a watch.

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wimilkman posted this 21 January 2023

Glenn,

I will check that out to see if that is going on I don't think it is but I will check it just to be sure , I do have a couple older .357 expander dies that I can use if needed.

Thank you Fred

Fred H.

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wimilkman posted this 21 January 2023

delmarskid

 Using .357 or .358 bullets is something I am going to try as the cylinder throats measure .357 , are you shooting them out of a S&W 929 ?? . I found some 135 gr. .357" LRN on one of the places websites I use for reloading supplies, but I do have some .358 bullets I use in 38 Special and 357 Mag I also have a Lee .357 sizing die so I will see what happens.

Thank you, Fred 

Fred H.

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358156hp posted this 22 January 2023

Hi Fred,

I'd start out by slugging the barrel and looking for tight spots in the usual areas like the barrel/frame juncture, and also look to see how well S&W cut your forcing cone. These may need some touchup.

One other thing you might look at is your reloading dies. Most of the carbide 9mm sizing dies leave the resized cases smaller in diameter than SAAMI Spec. It's so bad that a lot of IPSC shooters are going to custom dies like those offered by Mighty Armory and others. I'm dealing with a similar situation right now and am seriously looking at Mighty Armory offerings, but they're not the only one providing proper sizing dies. They're expensive, and it pays to shop around.

 

Bob

 

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wimilkman posted this 22 January 2023

Bob,

Thank you for the information I use all Lee dies and presses , but I will check the dimensions to see where I am on sizing ,I will also look at the forcing cone . If my sizing die is to small I will reach out to Lee Precision I had them make me a custom die for 38 super I have a S&W 627 PC and it solved my problems . You may want to reach out to Lee Precision also I believe they still make custom dies.

Thank you again.

Sincerely, Fred

Fred H.

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Eutectic posted this 22 January 2023

The small diameter produced in some sizing dies can work to your advantage. Get or make a long  expander plug 0.001 or even the same size as your bullet. Run it in only as far as you seat the bullet. This creates a ledge the base of the bullet sets on preventing set back. It will also prevent hard cases from sizing your bullet down.

I have found a large variation in 9mm cases. Variable volume and wall thickness. Some cases with thick walls will not allow chambering with 0.357 or 0.358 bullets.

When 9mm drives me crazy, I go to 45 ACP therapy.

Steve

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wimilkman posted this 23 January 2023

I feel your pain with the variations in 9 mm cases as mine are all range brass , I have started to sort them but going through 4000 of them is not something I relish doing and it will take me a while. I am going to reach out to Lee Precision to see if they will make me a custom longer expander plug , they have made me dies before and are not to expensive.

When 9mm drives me crazy I get out my 1911 Springfield V-16 Long Slide in 45 ACP/ 45 Super

Thank you, Fred

Fred H.

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Waleone posted this 23 January 2023

NOE stocks expander plugs that fit the Lee universal expander die in a plethora of diameters. They recently added powder through expanders to their in stock items.

Wayne

Wayne

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delmarskid posted this 23 January 2023

Hi Fred, I’m shooting the Lee 125g flat nose cast from straight wheel weights at about 950fps out of a Girson Beretta 92 clone.

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wimilkman posted this 24 January 2023

Wayne,

I will check NOE out to see what they have.

Thank you 

Fred H.

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wimilkman posted this 24 January 2023

I wish I could cast my own but where I live it is not feasible I have found some .357 LRN at Graf's for 9mm / 38 Super 

Fred H.

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tomme boy posted this 25 January 2023

Fred, order a Lee 38 S&W powder thru expander. It will size correctly for a 0.357" bullet. And it will size down into the case farther so it will not swage the bullet. 

 

One other thing you have to be careful of is your seater die can turn into a sizing die if it has a smaller I.D. I have seen this with all makers dies when you use a bullet larger than what is used for a jacketed bullet. And NEVER use the fcd with the carbide ring in the crimp die. It will swage the bullet in the case. 

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Aaron posted this 25 January 2023

I have always been of the opinion that reloading the 9mm cartridge is the nemesis of all hand-loaders. That cartridge will reduce a grown man to a mumbling idiot whilst trying to reload it for accuracy and/or functionality in specific guns. I believe this is due, in part, to all the various rifling methods, barrel lengths, chamber dimensions, free-bore and throat variation, and in some cases - forcing cone depth and angle, chamber mouth dimensions, and others.

I agree with the above suggestions to find a larger expander plug so .357 or .358 cast bullets may be used (if possible) in your chambers. One trick with the 9mm I learned is that this cartridge LOVES Accurate #7 propellant with cast bullets in "normal" barrel lengths of about 5 inches in semi-auto handguns. That powder cured a tumbling issue I was having with 124gr RN cast bullets. This sounds crazy on the face of it, but darn if it didn't. I got that suggestion from a gray beard on another site years ago. Apparently he had similar issues with the 9mm cartridge.

The 9mm is an "intense" cartridge meaning that things happen FAST when you pull the trigger. The pressure/time curve is usually high and fast with this "semi-auto" cartridge. Accurate #7 slows that curve a little bit and may work to allow a more gentle barrel/cylinder gap jump. Who knows. It may be worth a try.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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wimilkman posted this 26 January 2023

tommeboy,

I did not think of using a S&W 38 powder through die, I have a extra one that is brand new as just never sent it back . I am well aware of the seater die and the FCD die swaging things down as I had a custom FCD dies one made by Lee about 10 years ago for my 627PC 38 super because of hard extraction issues, solved all my problems with Winchester Brass. I was looking at NOE and there powder thru dies but had not done anything yet so Thank you for replying I will try that first.

Sincerely, Fred

Fred H.

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wimilkman posted this 26 January 2023

Aaron,

The 9mm has reduces me to more than mumbling idiot at times the cartridge drives me crazy of all the cartridge's I reload this has had the biggest learning curve for me. I retired several years ago and finally got a hold of 10,000 SP primers so I am finally getting into shooting the 929. It has been somewhat of a frustrating thing for me especially since my S&W 627 PC and Rock Island 1911 in 38 super are both accurate as hell. I was told by a guy today who is older than me at the range to try #7 also and I am 67 , I have tried 700X (which I have used for years in 38super, 40 ,45acp) also tried Win Auto Comp , Long Shot and currently going to try Win 244, I use a 125 gr. LRN bullet currently, but did order a box of 125gr LSWC today on suggestion from the OG at the range today   I am going to see if my local Sportsman's Warehouse has any #7 tomorrow. 

Thank you again, 

Sincerely, Fred

Fred H.

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wimilkman posted this 27 January 2023

Bob,

I looked at the dies on Mighty Armory website ,I also sized 25 cases tonight and yes they are sized less than SAAMI specs. I am very much considering one of there sizing dies. I am going to also reach out to Lee Precision to see if they still do custome sizing dies also.

Thank you, Fred

Fred H.

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wimilkman posted this 27 January 2023

Wayne,

I looked at the NOE powder thru expander dies also they look like they would possibly do the trick along with a die of the correct size. My cases are way under SAAMI. Thanks for the information on NOE I would not have found it.

Sincerely, Fred

Fred H.

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Hornet posted this 27 January 2023

Fred,

  The 9mm case is supposed to have quite a bit of taper to it (~.010"). If your full length sizing die is making them too small, you might be able to back it off 1/4 turn or so and increase the as-sized diameter a bit.

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wimilkman posted this 28 January 2023

Hornet,

I am going to try that tomorrow , that may be all I need to hopefully do ,but I will try it and see how it works.

Thank you, Fred

Fred H.

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wimilkman posted this 17 February 2023

First of all Thank you to all of you for your advice... it has been greatly appreciated.... I bought the NOE 9mm powder thru expander die inserts as I had a Lee short charging die. I also bought the NOE wadcutter expanding die for 38 special and a friend of mine who used to load 38 Long Colt gave me his Lee powder thru expanding die a few days ago. The Noe die for 9mm works OK but I have had issues with powder not flowing through it the best, another friend of mine is going to take it to his shop and enlarge the hole for me and polish it more as it is a little rough. It seems to do the job as my 9mm groups have tightened up quite a bit ,the one for 38 special wadcutter is the bomb it works phenomenal and makes my K 38 Masterpiece like a laser. I have also used the Lee 38 Long Colt powder thru expanding die it does same thing at a lot lower price and that ammo shoots equal to the NOE die. 

One note that may interest some of you I contacted Lee Precision about doing a Custom Sizing die that does not size the case down so far they told me all I have to do is contact them with what you want the specifications to be and they can make one a little larger. The person I talked to told me they do quite a bit of that type of work.

Fred H.

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