• Last Post 18 June 2019
joeb33050 posted this 14 June 2019





After testing a 22-250 barrel in the “BARREL PRESSURE MANAGER” experiment, we agreed to move to 22 rimfire. Not wanting to drill holes in my BSA 12/15 Martini, I bought a Huskvarna 622 with open sights. (The Martini, 50-yard, 5-shot, scope, 180 groups averaged .472”.)

All shot nicely with GECO Semi Auto ammunition, $23per brick, used in all testing unless noted.

This rifle was too nice to drill; next I bought a Remington 513T, made in 1951, with Redfield Irons. 57 5-shot 50-yard iron sight groups averaged .796”, 75 with Weaver T36 averaged .499.

 I couldn’t bear to drill this barrel, so I bought a Mossberg 44 US PROPERTY made in 1944.

 With peep rear and blade front:

 The Mossberg has no scope mount. With the correct aperture front sight, 66 5-shot 50-yard iron-sight targets averaged .838”; the last 50 groups averaged .770”.

 Too good to drill.

 Next, a Winchester 69A-chronographed 2 ammunitions, minor accuracy testing, to Mike for drilling. I gotta stop buying rifles.

 Lessons Learned:

 I thought that barrel quality had vastly improved in the past ?60 years. I was wrong, These, and other, old guns shoot as well/accurately as new guns.

 22RF is more accurate, easier, than cast bullets.

 I thought that 22RF guns are sensitive to ammo type, everybody says so. Wrong, GECO works great in almost all guns so far.

 I learned more about bench shooting, in the last year, with 22RF, than I learned in my first 58 years of bench shooting.


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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 14 June 2019

joeb .. a friend had a remmy 513T .. i shot a couple matches with it and it had promise .. so he had a semi-match chamber put in, then i hollowed out the buttstock and put in a pound + of lead ... then added a rear pillared tang screw installed above the factory rear guard screw and pillared the front screw. .... he mounted a classic unertl scope and with fed. match ammo it shot one fat hole at 50 yards. of course, then he didn't let me borrow it anymore, ... i had to buy my own 40x and start over in tuning that up.

you can epoxy a mount on a 22rf, don't need to drill holes.

when i shot position 22rf, i preferred a rem. 37 over a 40x.  

funny, 60 years later i still get a quick memory flash of a target bull through those redfield international sights ... makes me smile...  ( interesting that the sight picture is always a 10 .. heh ... ) ...


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shake posted this 15 June 2019

Joe can you share more of what you learned about bench shooting?

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joeb33050 posted this 15 June 2019


I know when a shot is good, and I know it as the gun goes off. I know it before the gun goes off. If I could NOT fire when the shot isn't going to be good; and fire only when the shot IS going to be good, groups would shrink. I'm working on it.

As I look through the sight, as time goes by, the sights/crosshairs quality-of-picture decreases. Fuzzy? Smaller size of sights/target? Hard to describe. My Sight degradation is caused by lack of oxygen. If I don't breathe, I can't see well. I've had to develop a system of breathing before and during the shot. I'm working on it.

Both of the above are about NOT shooting when the shot isn't going to be good; I find it hard to not shoot, I want the shot gone and done with. 

I MUST call every shot. My 36X scope sees 50-yard 22 holes fine. Irons, I MUST look through a spotting scope for every shot.

I MUST find and use a position for me and the rifle, and use that position through each session.The position can change from session to session, but must remain the same during the session. I can see irons with my eye at/near the disk, or ~3" further back. Either works, a mix does NOT, for me.

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shake posted this 15 June 2019

Thanks Joe, good information.

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Larry Gibson posted this 15 June 2019


That's a good start on the fundamentals of marksmanship.  They apply to all forms of shooting, not just bench rest. Nice shooting with those 22LR rifles btw.


Concealment is not cover.........

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R. Dupraz posted this 15 June 2019

United States ARMY Marksmanship Training Unit Instructors & Coaches Guide Manual



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Ross Smith posted this 18 June 2019

Joe: You hit on a very interesting point. Today I was testing my .22 mag and my 22lr. I free floated both, and they both shot into a ragged hole at 50 yds. One a Marlin and one a remmy, both inexpensive old rifles. Out shooting my 'o6 with cb's.

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longhunter posted this 18 June 2019

I have one like that to R.

Good info inside.


Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret.

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R. Dupraz posted this 18 June 2019

Mine is a the "60's" edition that I got from the AMTU back then. 

Since, I have read that some of the fundamentals of marksmanship have been changed from what had been originally taught for years. Specifically breath control when shooting the rifle. No more introducing the  stress to the body by holding the breath but breaking the shot immediately at the end of the natural exhale cycle. 



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joeb33050 posted this 18 June 2019


The jacketed bullet test proved that the 20 year old  CBA accuracy stalemate is caused by the bullets alone.

The rimfire test has proved that 

New barrels are not much, if any, more accurate than old. It ain't the barrel.

Any undamaged 22 rf gun will shoot better than many cast bullet guns.

22 rf contains the secret that lowers the .5" 100 yard hurdle. The secret ain't powder coating.


Either R and/ or longhunter should write an expose' of benchrest shooting; help us out here!

joe b.

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