Powder Coated Bullets Introduced To A Schutzen Competitor

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Last Post 13 October 2022

CBA Member

mashburn posted this 07 October 2022

A friend of mine picked up an extra-nice Model425 Stevens lever action in .35 Remington..He was dying to shoot it and had no ammo, so I scraped him up a few rounds of odds and ends factory rounds and a few jacketed reloads. He fired these and started collecting reloading components. Jim is an experience reloader and bullet caster and has an FFL manufacturers license and manufactures some very nice custom single shot rifles.He has participated in Schutzenfest for several decades. I had been telling him about the success that I had been having with gas checked, powder coated bullets, in which he had shown lots of interest but had never given it a try.

He came by the house about a week ago asking to borrow my .35 Rem. dies. While we were standing at my reloading bench gathering up the things he needed, I noticed a plastic container of 200 Gr.bullets gas checked, powder coated and sized to.359 Before I loaned him my dies and gave him the bullets, he had already come up with some factory ammo, a box of Hornady jacketed bullets and some brass. The only instructions that I gave him when I gave him the bullets, of which there was about a hundred, was to use jacketed bullet reloading tables and start at the bottom and work up.

I went by his house yesterday while in the area. I asked him if he had used any of the bullets that I gave him. He said yes and they had out- shoot anything that he had tried, including the factory ammo and reloads with hornady jacketed bullets. He also said that when he went to clean his bore that the only thing that came out was a little black soot. I use gloss black powder coat for my coating. I think he is now going to be a powder coater and I'm quite proud of my bullet smithing.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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11 Comments

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Standard Member

Shuz posted this 08 October 2022

Nice going!

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CBA Member

beltfed posted this 09 October 2022

BIG question is, will he try PC coated bullets for his Schuetzen shooting.

beltfed/arnie

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CBA Member

mashburn posted this 09 October 2022

Hello beltfed,

I'm positive that he will try them in Schutzen, of course he won't be able to shoot the gas checks in that competition.

Masshburn

David a. Cogburn

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 09 October 2022

I know there are at least two other shooting organizations sponsoring matches for schuetzen (plain base, breech seated) type shooting, and I have no idea how the others will handle PC coating. The CBA does not allow polymer coating in our Plain Base Bullet Class.

The reasoning of the CBA Board in modifying our Article 4.1 (attached below) was that since gas checks are not allowed in this class and polymer coated bullets, can take the place of gas checks to allow CBs to be successfully fired at much higher velocities than possible with plain based bullets, polymer coating shouldn't be allowed in PBB class.

Please note that in the same Article 4.1 it is made clear that polymer coated bullet are ALLOWED in all other CBA classes for all registered CBA competitions.

John

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4.1 Cast Bullet - A projectile made of lead or lead alloy which has received its basic form by being cast of molten metal in a mold rather than being formed in a die. Except in the Plain Base Bullet class, a gas check having a sidewall height of no more than 0.10" may be attached to the base. Enlarging or reducing a cast bullet by bumping or swaging is permitted. Surface treatments of bullets with materials similar to Lee Liquid Alox, Molybdenum disulfide (Moly), paper, paint, and Teflon tape are permitted. Polymer coating by liquid or powder methods is also permitted except in Plain Base Bullet Class. Metallic coverings such as jackets or plating are not permitted.

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CBA Member

mashburn posted this 11 October 2022

Hello John,

First, I have never participated in Schutzen so I know nothing of their rules. I shot on the small bore team in the army and competed in RfFbench rest after my first retirement. That was the end of my competitive shooting, My love is old guns,, which I like to shoot paper and also hunt with them.I consider myself and experimenter and inventor. Since I don't shoot cast bullets in competition, rules such as lubes mean nothing to me. I just strive for accuracy.

I did not know that the CBA had made the new rule on PB bullets and their lube regulations. I see this as good and bad. The good part, in my view, is to retain the tradition of shooting cast lead. The bad part is that it may hinder the advancement of accuracy of the PB bullets. In my view, of the good and bad, I would pick the rule change of no powder coating on PB bullets,,as good, because I think it will help keep cast bullet shooting more traditional.

An interesting point about this rule change is that for the past four years or so, a lot of cast bullet people, on the forum, have ranted that powder coating was of no benefit and such remarks. I hope that they will eventually learn that there is a great asset for cast bulolet accuracy and yes, Speed, with powder coating.

Mashburn.

David a. Cogburn

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 11 October 2022

Hi Mashburn,

I don't vote except to break ties but I agree with the board's decision. I think there were good reasons to keep it out of the plain base bullet class for the reason's noted but also because schuetzen shooters are very heavy on tradition.

There was strong and loud opposition to allowing PC in any class but the first principle of the CBA's Nature and Purpose is "Stimulating and encouraging experiments in casting and hand loading cast bullets that will improve the design, accuracy, and effectiveness of the ammunition and increase the satisfaction and enjoyment of shooters" A strong majority of the Board believed that PC should be allowed in all our other classes.

John

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CBA Member

45 2.1 posted this 11 October 2022

With that in mind John, to evaluate which does what, you should separate results involving PC to see if it improve on what already is known (to a point). Not everyone in the world understands how the normal methods work.

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 12 October 2022

I'm sure that several shooters including myself will be watching match results. There is already some match results indicating that PC can result in excellent performance and even more results indicating that it can be done in a way that is ineffective. I think this is normal for anything new that can be done many different ways. That's what makes it interesting.

John

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CBA Member

Bud Hyett posted this 13 October 2022

Plain Base Class:

Strong on tradition.
The same rifle can shoot CBA, ASSRA, ISSA matches.
The challenge is there, very few perfect scores have been shot.

In my opinion, the basic Schuetzen setup is already established.

Narrow range of powders,
Similar bullets sized to fit the chamber and leade,
Small Rifle or Small Pistol primers,
Soft lubricant,
Slow (or gain twist) twist barrels.

Winning is judging wind and light conditions, steadiness and repeatability of hold (two-piece stock), seating the bullet the same. Factors that are extraneous to the lubricant.

Powder-coat is not traditional. Also, powder-coat is not automatically superior for accuracy results. In the sense of experimentation, I like the rule that says powder-coat is allowed. I'd hate to see it applied to a strongly traditional class.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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