JACKETED BULLET TEST 1

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  • Last Post 22 August 2018
joeb33050 posted this 18 August 2018

 

JACKETED BULLET TEST

 

With my Savage rifles and barrels, 1 Shilen barrel in 22-250:

 

After a sum of 7 years of testing, I have been unable to find any combination that will reliably shoot under 1.5” for 5-shot 100-yard 5-group averages.  

 

After 20 months of testing I’ve concluded that in 223 Rem and 22-250, jacketed bullets will group well under 1” for 5-shot 100-yard 5-group averages with a cast bullet powder, Titegroup, at cast bullet charges/velocities.  

 

Jacketed bullets shoot more accurately than cast bullets, and I’m convinced that no amount of weighing, measuring or adjusting will make cast bullets shoot as accurately as jacketed.

 

 

 

The difference is in the bullet. Cast bullets do not look like jacketed bullets, they’ve got grease grooves and flat/round points and they’re softer than jacketed bullets.

 

 

 

Harder bullets could be made of zinc; cast, or for experiment, lathe/screw machine cut from zinc rods.

 

 

 

https://www.boatzincs.com/zinc_rods.html

 

3/8” X 36” zinc rod, $14.08

 

Hardness Mohs scale;

 

Lead: 1.5

 

Zinc: 2 or 2.5

 

Brass: 3-4

 

Specific Gravity: grams/cc

 

 

 

Zinc bullets weigh ~ 65% of lead bullets

 

Zinc melts at 787 degrees F

 

 

 

I’m not a machinist, and can’t cast anymore; but I can and will pay for that work to be done.

 

 

 

I would be happy to supply zinc rods for any of you machinists to cut into .308” diameter bullets with a simple point.

 

If turned zinc bullets work, I’ll get a mold maker to cut a mold.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

 

Gas checked lead alloy bullets with a shape approximating that of jacketed bullets might work.

 

I’ll buy the mold if someone will cast and do the shooting.

 

 

 

The cast lead bullet in my mind is a .308” cylinder .8” long, pointed at one end with a ~3/8” long taper, and a gas check shank at the bottom

 

The zinc bullet is the same, with no gas check shank.

 

Either should stabilize in 10” twist.

 

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Maven posted this 18 August 2018

"Gas checked lead alloy bullets with a shape approximating that of jacketed bullets might work. 

I’ll buy the mold if someone will cast and do the shooting."

 

joe, I sent you a PM about this, but it now occurs to me that you should ask 45 2.1 about that CB design.

 

 

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pat i. posted this 18 August 2018

Joe I had Veral Smith cut me a mold with one cavity a straight sided PB I moly coated and one cavity the same design but with a .090 gas check shank so I could add a little lube and a check. The moly coated bullet was a complete failure and the bullet with the shank and a little lube shot alright but nothing earth shattering. This was with a 14 twist Shilen barrel in 30 BR on a Stolle action. I sold the mold to Dick Reese and he had no better results. The zinc bullets would be an interesting experiment but I'd think it would be prohibitively expensive. I'm starting to miss the point of all this. If you want jacketed bullet performance and great accuracy just buy some jacketed match grade bullets or Sierra Match Kings. If you want cast bullet performance accept their limitations and enjoy the things theyre capable of doing. Shooting well under an inch with a bench gun using discarded wheel weights and a hundred dollar mold you can cast 1000s of bullets with seems like pretty good results as far as I'm concerned.

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dbarron posted this 19 August 2018

I tried swaging ww alloy in the same die used to produce jacketed bullets--a six radius ogive. Popped a gas check in when the "core" was expanded (I think--not in shop so no records).  Lubed with lla. Didn't shoot worth a darn in a Rem 700 heavy barrel. The identical jacs shot great.  Had both loaded to cast velocities.  Didn't go any further with it, but with the exception of the materials, they were identical.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 August 2018

about 1956 i bot some zinc ( molded ? ) commercial bullets for my 1 moa 222 .  looked like nice 50 gr. mj.  2 or 5 different full power loads shot about 3 moa ....  i shot them up at pond turtles .   would do if lead is outlawed i suppose.   i think i saved one back in my stash .

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GP Idaho posted this 20 August 2018

For anyone that may be interested. Mid-South has some 40 and 41 caliber zinc bullets on sale at a very reasonable price. As to jacketed bullets or cast lead bullets,  There are a few things I just take as a fact. The sky is blue (usually) jacketed bullets shoot more accurately than cast or swaged lead bullets (usually) There are many other reasons I shoot cast lead bullets than the Nth degree of accuracy. Gp

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45 2.1 posted this 20 August 2018

 

JACKETED BULLET TEST

With my Savage rifles and barrels, 1 Shilen barrel in 22-250:

After a sum of 7 years of testing, I have been unable to find any combination that will reliably shoot under 1.5” for 5-shot 100-yard 5-group averages.  

After 20 months of testing I’ve concluded that in 223 Rem and 22-250, jacketed bullets will group well under 1” for 5-shot 100-yard 5-group averages with a cast bullet powder, Titegroup, at cast bullet charges/velocities.  

Jacketed bullets shoot more accurately than cast bullets, and I’m convinced that no amount of weighing, measuring or adjusting will make cast bullets shoot as accurately as jacketed.

 

The difference is in the bullet. Cast bullets do not look like jacketed bullets, they’ve got grease grooves and flat/round points and they’re softer than jacketed bullets.

 

Harder bullets could be made of zinc; cast, or for experiment, lathe/screw machine cut from zinc rods.

 

First I will point out that this is a small sample size in 22 caliber with one powder. What you've found is probably true for you and the rifles and components you've used. Change those rifles, components and methods and it could be completely different in other cases. I can tell you that you aren't the first guy to try this......... go look at the older bullet designs in several calibers including 22's, you'll find lots of spitzer designs. Those spitzers lacked refinement and don't shoot too well due to lack of bearing length. You will have somewhat the same problem with what you are trying. Hard bullets.... the fellows in the 50's tried zinc as well with decent, but not outstanding results. Hard will not do better until you account for other factors. The information is out there, but is difficult to find now in the computer age.

 

 

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BigMan54 posted this 22 August 2018

I seem to remember GUNS & AMMO tried a Zinc handgun experiment in the mid 1970's. ( Of course with my memory it coulda be SHOOTING TIMES)  They had stability problems and declared the rest a waste. 

But what about the PROT-X Bore bullets with the Zinc washers from the 1950's. I think they were handgun bullets only. I guess they never caught on. But there is good info about PROT-X Bore bullets in the LYMAN Cast Bullet Handbook #1.

 

 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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